I took the following AI in the OC meeting: "start a thread or book a meeting to discuss next steps in the messaging space per-WG and cross-WG".
@edumerco @edsu @sam @Matt_Noyes I think you are interested in this topic :) would you like to start by discussing here? I can also start a time slot picking process to meet and discuss synchronously.
Also, anyone else that you think would be interested?
@flancian @edsu @sam @Matt_Noyes @mako @ntnsndr @dazinism
On another different line of thought/software, I had really great experiences with Zulip (https://zulip.com/).
What makes it great from my POV is the serious thread model. It helps to know what is happening, keep context, focus on what matters for you (including notificacions), mark as done, etc.
It is not federated, but it is Free Software and we can self-host it.
Anyone else tried it? Do we want to make a test?
@edumerco @flancian @edsu @Matt_Noyes @mako @ntnsndr @dazinism I was thinking before that May First has chat and we have May First access but that it probably wouldn't be ideal for us because it is *just* an account and they don't provide a web client or anything (as far as I know?), but it occurred to me later that we could also just use the May First infrastructure and host our own web client (or just a page recommending actual apps for different operating systems).
@edumerco @sam @edsu @Matt_Noyes @mako @ntnsndr @dazinism thank you all for your interest and participation!
Ideally I think we could pursue the following using the fact that one of our VPSes is under-utilized currently:
- Install some or all of: a lightweight Matrix server (e.g. conduit), an XMPP server (something prosody adjacent?), a Zulip instance.
- Share test credentials with people in the working groups and gather feedback/see what catches on and productionize that?
@edumerco @sam @edsu @Matt_Noyes @mako @ntnsndr @dazinism on the topic of what the goal would be, I think the ideal outcome is we offer an extra service to the community *with the initial warning that it might have a worse SLO than the mastodon instance*, meaning they shouldn't rely on it for anything critical yet. Then we see how expensive it is to run and we vote as a community on running it or not?
@edumerco @sam @edsu @Matt_Noyes @mako @ntnsndr @dazinism from all the options, I still believe Matrix is the most future looking and the platform where most of our members *already have accounts*; but I'm OK being swayed by data and other proposals, and don't get me wrong: I liked Zulip a lot when I used it, and I used to help run XMPP for Google and loved it back then.
@flancian @edumerco @sam @edsu @Matt_Noyes @mako @dazinism I think it would be great to expand our offerings this way and would love to see us host a Matrix server, esp. since we use Matrix anyway, and to support an important project.
Cf:
https://www.loomio.com/d/5yW7iCsJ/new-social-coop-services-
https://www.loomio.com/d/tOBDu5ap/
https://www.loomio.com/d/gP67te9Z/
@mako @ntnsndr @edumerco @sam @edsu @Matt_Noyes @dazinism glad to read that Benjamin! This is still brewing but mostly unblocked now, next steps are making some time in the tech working group to deploy test instances of ideally several of the options (I'd personally start with a Matrix homeserver though).
If you're already on Matrix and Interested in discussing further feel free to join our room, it's documented in wiki.social.coop!
@edsu @flancian @mako @ntnsndr @edumerco @Matt_Noyes @dazinism meaning no disrespect, but mind dropping me from this thread? As you all know I am strongly opposed to us running a Matrix homeserver, but we don't seem to be honestly considering other alternatives and I really just don't want to have to keep being sad every time this pops up in my timeline.
Dear @sam
I didn't knew about your distaste with Matrix and I'm very much with you, that's why proposed zulip (or XMPP). But of course, the last thing we want to do is to bother.
Do you want to be included when/where we discuss other possibilities?
Sorry for the sadness... (≧≦)
@sam
No harm done, I open a matrix client to speak with one person really and didn't saw there much conversation about it neither. :)
So, coming back to this talk, which criteria do we use to make a choice?
I'll start with a few to ignite the talk:
. Inclusivity and freedom (amount of possibilities about how to use/access the service)
. Standards (tested, advancements, documentation)
1/2
@edsu @flancian @mako @ntnsndr @Matt_Noyes @dazinism
2/2
. Thread management (what is being talked here now? What is already done and what is alive?
. Federation?
. Security (both data and metadata)
. Low on resources (both for installation and maintenance)
. Possibility to integrate with our -desired- SSO
. What others? :)
Hi @edsu
I get it, and it is true. And there is other subset that would prefer other solution/s.
Or we could support many services, but now we are limited on people with knowledge so that is for some future. :)
So, in orden not to fall on preferences, let's try to agree on criteria to make a selection for a specific use.
Today matrix is already used by some WGs. Do we want to provide a service to all the coop members or just some WGs?
Hi @dynamic
I agreed with almost everything except the selfishly part, which made laugh a lot, so thank you very much... :DDD
Back on topic, I *specially* agree about the infinite scroll. It is positively difficult to talk and focus in such a varying context. That is why I proposed zulip, that manages those things in a spectacular way. :)