i love being on social.coop and i have learned so much from hanging out with all you nerds but the vibe here has been sort of off for a minute and i can't really put my finger on it. I don't have any more specifics for you now but I feel like we are reaching the point every coop reaches where things feel sort of adrift and we need a moment to recollect what the hell we're doing here
when I think about why this place is dope I think about @flancian who inspires me with worldbuilding and @edsu who has taught me a lot about patience and historical embeddings and @ntnsndr for teaching me about tactical cooperativism and @bhaugen whose initial replies to my posts of "wtf is this whole fediverse thing" kept me looking and @smallcircles for always being mad at the same things as me but in a more organized way and i just wish digital space had more of a "call in, pause shit" mode
that's not an exclusive list, i can @ like a dozen more people i have met through here i just don't want to be obnoxious. anyway i have been expressing this in the main matrix chat and haven't had the stomach to venture onto the loomio but i think one of the lessons i'm learning now is that digital cooperatives need an "all hands meeting" where it's possible to actually pause for consensus, because otherwise the fragmentation of time and space seems like it becomes too much to feel connected.
I am not trying to re-create analog cooperation in digital space, but i feel like there is shit to be learned yno. when we feel like the vibes need healing in meatspace cooperativism we pause to share and wait and i feel like that part of consensus is missing in digital cooperation
I have been hanging out on the other social networks too and one of the presiding modes of thought there is "i just want a place where i can post" and that doesn't match how i feel at all, but it's also been tough contributing time here because I have been trying to get our own sister instance off the ground with lessons learned from here and also I feel like in the last few big discussions we've had the vibes have gotten rotten and we don't have a good way of reeling that in.
instance scale is just about the furthest thing from a "goal" as i can imagine, and I wonder if this is a byproduct of fediverse-flavor federation where identity is bound up with instance, and if we wouldn't be better served with being part of many, smaller, overlapping groups instead. it's related to what i've been saying in the main chat about how the thing that we really seem to be needing is a collective reflection on values and if we come to irreconcilable differences to split up.
the anarchist in my bloodstream wants to find a way to enact the many small overlapping affinity group model where we can disperse and re-engage fluidly as the situation demands and maybe it's just feeling stuck where the structural model is to grow big and homogenous to be stable
@jonny I'd be curious to hear what you think of the ideas in https://www.brainonfire.net/blog/2023/06/19/groups-should-go-small/ -- in particular the idea in the last section, which I think would provide the "small overlapping affinity group" approach.
(If it's too terse, happy to expand on it.)
@jonny that's helpful.. the divide does seem to be people who are on SC to be in a community of cooperator/mutualist/alt-economy folk & those who want a social media platform coop. The latter want scale mostly, & many won't see why block/hide Meta. The former want to protect the community as it's been, even at risk of splitting.
Is there a path where those wanting scale go into the fediverse & help other/bigger instances become member-owned, but stay friends? Ie Hachyderm wanted to, under Kris.
@jonny @flancian @ntnsndr @bhaugen @smallcircles and I so appreciate your honesty, infectious energy, and willingness to dive into the wreckage, and chart new courses with friendship & solidarity.
I agree about having an all hands and getting a read on where the coop is at. I know some people are very dependent on getting their messages out to as many screens as possible. Recently I have come to see my own lack of interest in that as more of a privilege than a principle.
@edsu @jonny @flancian @bhaugen @smallcircles agreed. I used to literally make my living on my ability to self-promote on Twitter. Today I am so grateful I can mostly just hang out here.
@ntnsndr @edsu @jonny @bhaugen @smallcircles it is a privilege to share a corner of the Commons with all you amazing people! I am grateful for the opportunity to learn from you, and the perspective of building something (or many things) together!
@jonny @flancian @edsu @bhaugen @smallcircles so grateful for this, and for you! It has been so fun teaming up and learning from your experiments.
I agree about the need for a shift. I do think a new approach to governance could be part of that, or a friendly fork.
@ntnsndr @jonny @edsu @bhaugen @smallcircles this could be explored as part of the [[social coop second instance]] discussion and associated proposals.
Still trying to bring up [[bonfire]] for a community test, let's see how it goes :)
@flancian
> Still trying to bring up [[bonfire]] for a community test, let's see how it goes :)
If you get there, ping me (if you want), I'm @bhaugen@campground.bonfire.cafe
@bhaugen @bhaugen@campground.bonfire.cafe @ntnsndr @jonny @edsu @smallcircles bonfire is now up :D my profile is https://bonfire.social.coop/@flancian
Unfortunately I can't seem to be able to add you -- I think this is because campground.bonfire.cafe is actually a non-federating (test only?) instance. I think if you get an account in bonfire.cafe proper (is this doable) it should work -- or in bonfire.social.coop of course :)
@bhaugen @bhaugen@campground.bonfire.cafe @ntnsndr @jonny @edsu @smallcircles
@mayel@pub.mayel.space @mayel@sunbeam.city @mayel@mastodon.social FYI this seems to be non-evident in the current Bonfire interface, the same thing bit me some months ago ^
@flancian @bhaugen@campground.bonfire.cafe @ntnsndr @jonny @edsu @smallcircles
I did not know that bonfire.social.coop existed. Says "This is in testing, may disappear at any time, do not trust it with critical data yet -- but enjoy!"
@bonfire are you seeing this? Can people get accounts on bonfire.cafe proper?
@bhaugen @bhaugen@campground.bonfire.cafe @ntnsndr @jonny @edsu @smallcircles @bonfire yes, I just brought it up half an hour ago :) I wrote that because at this point people can sign up and try it, but we intend to make it work with single-sign-on next and that might require wiping accounts (or be made easier by going that way). So it's only for playing for now -- but it's already federating FWIW.
@flancian did you set up bonfire.social.coop?
If so, well done, and how hard is it to set up a new bonfire instance? I might want to try that.
@bhaugen@campground.bonfire.cafe @ntnsndr @jonny @edsu @smallcircles @bonfire
@bhaugen @flancian @bhaugen@campground.bonfire.cafe @ntnsndr @jonny @smallcircles @bonfire
Based on the matrix conversation it looks like it was setup with @coopcloud https://recipes.coopcloud.tech/bonfire ?
@edsu @bhaugen @bhaugen@campground.bonfire.cafe @ntnsndr @jonny @smallcircles @bonfire @coopcloud yes, precisely! using [[coop cloud]] it was relatively straightforward -- and, more importantly, issues we hit during setup you wouldn't hit as they've been fixed for other coop cloud users thanks to those amazing folks :D
The initial set up of coop cloud/abra that would be the 'fixed cost' of such a setup would be: https://docs.coopcloud.tech/operators/tutorial/
@flancian it's so cool to hear about the experience being shared via the tooling!
I guess at some point we should start dropping some notes in wiki.social.coop about our use of coop.cloud and abra?
@edsu thanks. So it is running on bonfire, not just the domain name!
Good! Will sign up...
@flancian @bhaugen@campground.bonfire.cafe @ntnsndr @jonny @smallcircles @bonfire @coopcloud
I signed up. Testing to see if it federates and if I can ping myself there from here;
@bhaugen@bonfire.social.coop can you see this?
@edsu @flancian @bhaugen@campground.bonfire.cafe @ntnsndr @jonny @smallcircles @bonfire @coopcloud
@bhaugen@bonfire.social.coop
my message from here to @bhaugen@bonfire.social.coo has not yet arrived after half an hour, but
1. Bonfire is painfully slow so it's hard to tell if it's not working or just being slow,
2. also getting a lot of Bad Gateway messages and Connection Failed notifications.
If and when bonfire.social.coop looks alive again, I will try a message from there to here.
@edsu @flancian @bhaugen@campground.bonfire.cafe @ntnsndr @jonny @smallcircles @bonfire @coopcloud
I did follow and sent a message to @flancian@bonfire.social.coop from my new account over there.
@flancian did you get it?
@bhaugen@bonfire.social.coop @edsu @flancian @bhaugen@campground.bonfire.cafe @ntnsndr @jonny @smallcircles @bonfire @coopcloud
@bhaugen @bhaugen@bonfire.social.coop @edsu @bhaugen@campground.bonfire.cafe @ntnsndr @jonny @smallcircles @bonfire @coopcloud ahoy! thank you for your patience. yes, as per the other thread there is an issue with federation which slows down bonfire to a crawl after a while. I have disabled federation now as per Mayel's recommendation; you should find the instance responsive again, although of course only interactions within bonfire.social.coop will work for now.
> If and when bonfire.social.coop looks alive again, I will try a message from there to here.
Looks like I can't do that yet...
@bhaugen@bonfire.social.coop @edsu @flancian @bhaugen@campground.bonfire.cafe @ntnsndr @jonny @smallcircles @bonfire @coopcloud
@bhaugen it sounds like bonfire federation still needs some testing / debugging, see here https://github.com/bonfire-networks/bonfire-app/milestone/45