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@ntnsndr Can you tell me more about what that would look like? I'm not a huge fan of Loomio but it servers a very different function then mastodon

@ktoddbrown for instance, a bot that could be used to:

- manage proposal voting
- announce votes and outcomes
- keep track of committees
- facilitate conflict resolution

I actually really like Loomio, but I think it would be best to integrate Mastodon governance within Mastodon.

@ntnsndr I guess I don't see the process that this would support. In my experience tech supports and enforces good process. If you don't know the process or have that dielled in that it doesn't matter what tech you pull in.

@ktoddbrown the hope is that the bot would facilitate process, just as Loomio does. But perhaps more interactively.

@ktoddbrown Maybe it could guide users through a process like this: https://wiki.social.coop/wiki/Make_a_proposal

@ntnsndr no! We’ve been focusing on the new frontend. If you know of any good backend devs who would be interested in taking this on tho, lmk. I should have some funding.

@axz

Any interest, @clayton @eloquence ?

@ntnsndr @axz @clayton

That looks super interesting. If you have funding, the first person I would reach out to is https://hachyderm.io/@thisismissem - she is already working on trust & safety tooling for the fediverse, and may have ability to take on additional paid work.

@ansate I imagine it would operate through posts on Mastodon. Those would be its public records. Perhaps it could also write to the wiki.

@ntnsndr i think the idea has promise! But between auto deleting posts, server weirdness, etc, feels like it would be important to capture things another way.

Also it’s really hard to just read a mastodon conversation with tons of people

@Matt_Noyes an option. But thinking about whether the extra tool is necessary.

@ntnsndr I have two concerns related to basic organizing principles: when a group is already doing something that aligns with your strategy and values, don't start a new project that competes, and we need to practice intercooperation at this level. Dissipation is the enemy of solidarity networks, right?

@Matt_Noyes I really like Loomio, but I have consistently heard members say they find it hard to use and follow. I don't think values should have to be painful.

Also, I think it is important to be a space of experimentation. Too often co-ops have gotten complacent and before long they are irrelevant.

To be clear: this is a super hypothetical question. I have only begun playing around with Mastodon bots!

@ntnsndr @Matt_Noyes maybe this points to a need for better onboarding and clarity about how we use Loomio? I am not convinced that the tool is the issue here tbh. I've seen Loomio work well for groups when there is a shared understanding of the protocols for using it. If anything the "drawback" to Loomio is its high degree of customizability, which can be a liability when groups don't have clear decision-making protocols or a consistent culture of agreements.

@ntnsndr @Matt_Noyes very excited to see the Organizing Circle proposal moving forward btw, which may be a big step towards solving this issue.

@Matt_Noyes @arod @ntnsndr I've got to be on the upper end of social.coop members in knowledge of Loomio and interest in governance, but I still find myself largely ignoring social.coop's Loomio discussions. I only have so much cognitive energy for it, and there aren't quick, clear ways to plug in. It's not a tool issue for me, it's a how-does-this-group-use-the-tool issue. For those less familiar with Loomio, it might be both, but solving one doesn't necessarily solve the other.

@shauna @Matt_Noyes @arod

First: Yeah, tech is not the solution for anything! I agree that, practically, the most important issue for us is not tech but process and structure. I am very enthusiastic about the re-organizing work going on now.

Second: I'm mostly just scratching my itch of a) wanting to learn how to build Mastodon bots because I like Mastodon, and b) being interested in governance tooling. I am not under any illusions that it would likely be as awesome as Loomio.

@shauna @Matt_Noyes @arod And just as a reminder, I'm the person who has probably done more Loomio on-boarding writing than anyone in the co-op:) I would love some company!

E.g.
https://wiki.social.coop/wiki/Make_a_proposal
https://wiki.social.coop/wiki/How_to_Make_the_Fediverse_Your_Own
https://wiki.social.coop/wiki/Social.coop_guide_to_Mastodon

@shauna @Matt_Noyes @arod Maybe a rephrasing of the question: Is there anything that our governance and community needs from a bot in addition to Loomio?

@ntnsndr @shauna @arod Or even, ccould a bot help us integrate loomio and mastodon such that members can more easily participate in governance and community-building?

@Matt_Noyes @shauna @arod For sure. I could definitely try adding functionality to the @SocialCoop account to publish Loomio activity, for instance. How's that for a start?

@Matt_Noyes @shauna @arod @SocialCoop Okay, got a first draft of this running:)

https://social.medlab.host/@govbot

What else? Thoughts?

@Matt_Noyes @shauna @arod @SocialCoop unfortunately the Loomio feed only has latest posts, not latest-discussed posts

@ntnsndr @shauna @arod @SocialCoop Is there a way to use RSS? I sometimes think that all we need is the ability to add links to the main mastodon interface, the way you can add links to your profile.

@Matt_Noyes @shauna @arod @SocialCoop yep I am harvesting the RSS from Loomio and structuring it

@ntnsndr @shauna @arod @SocialCoop This, I think, is what I was hoping for:

"The ideal solution would be to integrate an RSS viewer into a Madison client, and set it to merge both timelines."

But it seems impossible....?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mastodon/comments/uleyda/is_there_a_away_to_bring_rss_feed_to_mastodon/

@nornagon would you check Loomio more if there were reminders on Mastodon to do so?

I recommend setting up email digests for Loomio. Super helpful, esp. if you are part of multiple groups.

@ntnsndr I get those, but don’t read them :/