@natalie consider it with @OS1337 or like #mkroot (#toybox+#musl / #linux) for 80x25 glory!

@ravirockks OFC they don't.

• And by "don't I don't mean "teach #assembly and CPU architectures" but anything that goes beyond #LinusTechTips's #Tutorials...

At best they show people how to change fan curves in the #UEFI or hiw to run #memtest86+, but mostly they just "teach" people how to consume #Windows and at best #macOS and that's it.

• I mean I don't expect any training center to teach people how to build #mkroot (#toybox + #linux) or #LinuxFromScratch but at least showing people how to use @ubuntu / #UbuntuLTS & @tails_live / @tails / #Tails should be in the cards if #RHEL & #SLES / #SLED isn't.

Same with @libreoffice / #LibreOffice & @thunderbird / #Thunderbird.

• At least the most pointless certification - #ECDL - isn't hard-locked to #Windows11 & #MicrosoftOffice per-se!

@eemmaa I guess it's similar to #Linux...

• #mkroot (part of #toybox) by @landley really makes it easy...

@ivarch granted, #OS1337 is a minimalist #toxbox + #musl / #linux distro.

Basically taking the idea of #mkroot that @landley did and work it towards a foundation for #minimal & #embedded systems because I find #LinuxFromScratch too #bloated, #OpenADK too #cringe and #YoctoLinux also too #phat.

@SweetAIBelle yeah, basically what I saw the last time.

My Idea with OS/1337 is to take the concept of #mkroot and only do what's necessary to it to turn it into a fully useable #Linux distro.

I'd not call #OS1337 mkroot because I do want to do more than just provide a basic root filesystem, but kinda lay a solid foundation for other projects of others and myself to utilize it...

@SweetAIBelle @OS1337 shure.

I'm convinced that a fully-fledged image of that would be similar to #toybox's #mkroot, which is @landley 's reference implementation for a toxbox + #musl / #linux system.

• Last time I checked it came out just below 4 MB, but that was the premade image using only the stuff toybox included [and linux & being statically compiled against musl] like #gzip instead of #xz for compression, so there already is room to shave a few hundred kB without reducing functionality out of the get-go as I've seen with my build tests of #kernel666...

Either way, we're close to his reference matterial AFAICT and I do think that OS/1337 can become a good and solid foundation for #minimalist & #embedded systems.

For comparison:

• #YoctoLinux is quite #THICC in comparison (using LSB & #GNUtils for the most part!) and stuff like #OpenADK seems to be overly complex...

  • tho #Viprinet hasn't updated their stuff in like 8 years and I sincerely hope that's just them loginwalling access to #SourceCode like #grsecurity to paying customers only and not them such old Kernels.

Speaking of #grsec, I wounder if Bruce Perens actually sued them for allegedly violating #GPLv2 when in fact said license allows #paywalling aka. restricting access to buyers of the product it contains.

@SweetAIBelle that's why I started @OS1337 : I looked at #Floppynux by @w84death and while it works with #BusyBox it doesn't do much beyond cat and vi and doesn't even have like drivers to store anything.

OFC #OS1337 isn't much better as of now but I do share the motivation that made @landley start #toybox:

A simple, clean, lean and adaptible, #smol #Linux distro that can be the solid foundation for anything.
https://youtu.be/MkJkyMuBm3g&t=1408
Whilst #mkroot is nice, I think there is some room for improvement and building an actual #distro.

• Also he has made excellent documentation including a live demonstration on how to basically DIY a minimalist linux from scratch with #musl & toybox: https://youtu.be/Sk9TatW9ino

I feel that "Just chug in a #RaspberryPi with the lite Version of #RaspberryPiOS seems quite overkill (it's a 350MiB (!!!) image) for most projects and espechally when it comes to #security-related stuff like #Cryptofon, #PocketCrypto and #LambdaCrypt.

• I think that besides "Don't DIY encryption! There are excellent implementations ready to grab and go!" the #KISS-Principle is key, cuz I'm a shit coder and I want to avoid having to fiddle around and instead make it easy to fix stuff just by updating versions from upstream.

@lestrrat which is kinda sad...
Because things don't habe to have daily updates!

Personally, my current pet project - @OS1337 - is inspired by @landley 's #mkroot and @w84death 's #Floppinux in that I want to not just make a simple #Linux distro 'from scratch' as a personal "#demoscene-esque" challenge but to answer the question:

"What is the amallest possible yet still useable Distro I can build with which I (as Linux-#Sysadmin] can still #work?"

• And I came to the conclusion that I can basically do everything from an #SSH #terminal similar to the #VT69 by @violenceworks but like as #distro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYfpptgb6W8

OFC that idea grew on me as I wanted to make something that is actually useable with just an 80x25 MDA or serial console...

It's still very rough around the edges, but you can just run it from a 1440kB 3,5" FDD on an i486SX and up with at least 16MB of RAM...
https://github.com/OS-1337/OS1337

You can download a test build from here...

@drwho Shit like this makes me hate not just #snap but @letsencrypt because that's more code than the entire backend for @cacert ...

• Seriously, there's no valid reason for #LetsEncrypt to take up more space than the acme.sh & #CertBot scripts they made AND certainly not more than the #API for #CAcert back in it's days...

I think there needs to be more and harder pushes for #FrugalComputing because there's no valid reason they basically shove an entire #OS onto an existing one...

• And even if there was there shure as hell is none for something beyond the ~ 4 MB that #mkroot as a reference implementation of #toybox requires...

@SweetAIBelle same...

I should also comment code more like @landley did with #mkroot ¹, which is similar in it's aims abeit focussed on being the reference implementation of a #toybox + #musl / #Linux distro that can reproduce itself under itself in a clean fashion and without the added challenge of wanting to shove it onto a 1440kB floppy image.

• He did a video basically showcasing how to do that ² without fuss & fluff like some 3kliksphillip mapping tutorial and I think stuff like this makes Linux a lot more approachable:

Also I guess I should also and rework stuff one piece at a time to make it easier to fix and test...

² https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk9TatW9ino

¹ https://github.com/landley/toybox/blob/master/mkroot/mkroot.sh

Tangents aside, people are free to create forks and even branches that include #SystemD or use #BusyBox:

That is the #Freedom of #FLOSS and in fact for anything outside the 1440kB target we'd accept #SystemD since it works and solves a lot of issues...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo

Granted OS/1337 isn't a #demo first but rather tries to take the concept of #tomsrtbt and @w84death 's #Floppinux and tries to make it something that is useable and can be extended to arbitrary complexity if one desires to...

It's about making a tiny #Linux distro that is #reproduceable and #auditable...

It won't replace @ubuntu or any other big distro, likely it won't even replace #mkroot from #toybox but it should be a clean and level foundation for small #IoT and #EmbeddedSystems projects and products...

Something that is easy to build and customize and port to other platforms...

And we're open for contributions:
https://github.com/OS-1337/OS1337/blob/main/docu/ideas/architectures.tsv

@DavittoKun Actually, I've not come that long and have been quite #lazy and #halfassing things way too much.

I just took @w84death 's #Floppinux Manual, a current #Linux Kernel, yeeted #BusyBox for @landley 's #toybox and hammered enough keys with my monkey brain to get a console working.

@SweetAIBelle them beautified and streamlined the list of scripts I used to build it and provided ample of feedback and suggestions.

In fact, I think everyone should read that Floppinux manual which is also a nice writeup to get started at the surface of it.
https://archive.org/details/floppinux-manual/

It's an ongoing process and ideally it'll get modest success for those that look for #OpenBSD-alike security but with the ease and simplicity of "how do I get this running on my [weird] box?" since basically every SoC today can boot Linux more or less straightforward to some degree.

I do OFC value and welcome feedback and support on that matter, as I can't even remotely claim to know everything without ridiculing myself with such a baseless statement.
https://github.com/OS-1337

Does it seem redundant to #mkroot?
Yeah, but that's expected since mkroot's goal is to showcase toybox's self-reproduceability and using it's built-in gzip instead of xz is just one of the many concessions this will inevitably demand...

Do I want OS/1337 to be 'self-hosting'?
Yes, but it's not the prime goal and thus currently out of focus for testing...

A lot of things will develop over time...

@landley @DavittoKun Again: Simplicity on it's own has value!
https://infosec.space/@OS1337/111795968531113076

I don't expect OS/1337 to become the major #Desktop OS or even put a significant dent into #Yocto #Linux's marketshare.

But I'd rather want to see it as something that drives #CriticalInfrastructure like #MedicalIT, #PowerGrids and #PLCs instead of cringeworthy #Bloatware like #Windows that is laced with so much #Govware that we can truly say #Microsoft is incompetent...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGmtP5Lg_t0#t=6m20s

In the end, it may end up like #AlpineLinux but to be fair I want to basically find a sweet spot between #mkroot-level simplicity and most modern distros with some basic quality-of-life additions that one can choose (or not!) to use.

Like a really basic paxkage manager that takes away the hassle of "build it yourself" if one trusts me...
https://github.com/OS-1337/spm

OFC that could be self-hosted internally...

@rory Since then @SweetAIBelle and I have worked on OS/1337 and whilst we have some booting prereleases, I want to iron it out into something that works and that is easily extensible and "build from source yourself"...

https://github.com/OS-1337/OS1337
https://github.com/orgs/OS-1337/projects/1/views/1

Tho #OS1337 is not to be confused with @landley 's reference implementation of a #toybox + #musl / #Linux distro that is #mkroot, which is close to but not identical to the foundation of #Android, but exceeds my space requirements.

Granted I'm open and willing to suggestions to make that happen on the "#CoreEdition" of OS/1337 but as of now that'll be the limit.

Tho this could change later once #syslinux has been replaced with something more efficient...

I guess @landley may also be interested in the alternatives to syslinux for #mkroot / #toybox?
https://github.com/OS-1337/OS1337/issues/10

Either way, development is continuing and work is in progress...

@SweetAIBelle Ideally we'd end up with something more featureful than #toybox's #mkroot when it comes to OS/1337.

Like a more modular configureability for targets and native- & cross-compiling, where supporting a new architecture/hardware is as easy as plopping in a profile with configs (plus i.e. necessary drivers / firmware not included in the kernel) into a folder and kicking off the build pipeline to generate a bootable image to dd onto a drive…

Tho I'd assume this won't happen b4 Q3/2024.

@SweetAIBelle But then again I do want to develop @OS1337 into a solution that sits right in between @landley 's #mkroot and @yoctoproject 's #Yocto #Linux whilst being able to fit arbitrary restrictions like competing with @w84death 's #Floppinux in size and #tomsrtbt in terms of functionality and versatility.

But speaking of OS/1337, i really need to get crackin' on those open issues and start using the reworked scripts of yours so my old mess can get yeeted sooner than later...

@landley @nixCraft @OS1337 makes sense...

also #gzip is the lowest common denominator of #compression on #linux, so it does make sense given that #toybox aims to provide a good yet space-efficient userland, even if that means i.e. vi instead of neovim or ne.

And given that #mkroot is a minimum viable product of a complete toybox/linux distro that is able to reproduce itself from source, it's inevitably going to be big.

A "self-hosting" distro that fits on 1440kB is very likely impossible...

@landley @OS1337 Tho I'm convinced #mkroot can't be pushed well under 1440k given that #syslinux as bootloader is a chonky boi.

I wished there was a better drop-in replacement but then again I've yet to do extensive research on that matter...