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It’s incredibly sad that we’ve lost the open, federated team chat space to #Matrix—where the only viable server isn’t open source, it’s debatable whether the underlying standard is truly open, and the most charitable thing I’ve heard about the UX is that it’s 'OK.'
@daniel to be fair, while I agree with your other points, I'm also pretty sure (with apologies to the other client authors, who suffer from the normal lack of funding/participation, not their fault) that Conversations is the only app that supports XMPP that has a decent UI too. I think I would honestly take one client per platform that was "OK" over that.
@drq @daniel yah, Dino's what I use. It's probably the closest after Conversations, but the UX leaves a lot to be desired and there are lots of little UI issues (ie. don't use it for a day or two, then enable it… your entire screen will be covered with notifications and everything will lock up while all the chats flicker new messages constantly as it downloads everything said in every chat room you've ever missed). Also adding contacts and starting chats is pretty hidden, etc.
@sam Nah, we do. Kinda. But it's nowhere near what Matrix has to offer, let alone big teamcomm platforms like Slack.
I mean, consistent searchable group chat history? No such thing, here's 20 latest messages. Unless you have a bot or a server plugin that records it in some HTTP-accessible archive, so it's not truly native.
Integrations? Well, bots is the only framework you have, and you have to work within that. There's no external integration API.
Links to messages in message history? Forget it.
And those are only the essentials for modern teamwork.
Matrix at least *somewhat* supports those. Plus, the groupchat survives even if the origin server goes down, so that's a perk.
And don't get me wrong: I don't really like Matrix. But it's the best thing we have right now for that purpose.
@drq @sam @daniel the group chat history can be completely stored on the server side, e.g. with https://modules.prosody.im/mod_muc_log.html showing the last 20 messages is also just a configuration default. But yeah, other than that a lot is missing or not standardized
@drq @dan @daniel oh I was going to point out the same thing, I didn't notice the description of that so maybe I misunderstood. Having history is the default on all servers as far as I know (at least, I haven't joined a room in a while that didn't have it), so I think that parts fine. That said, still not searchable which is the important part for business stuff.
@drq @dan Those modules are obsolete. Modern XMPP with XEP-0313 allows querying messages in-band without needing a web service. Modern clients with a quote/reply feature seem to be able to jump to arbitrary messages by ID reference, so I don't believe it to be difficult to implement by someone motivated.
@drq @sam @daniel While XMPP is definitely behind for the team chat use case, as at least in my corner we have focused on private chat, you have some outdated info.
XEP-0313 enables fetching arbitrary messages by specific ID, ID-ranges and time ranges, so links to specific messages should be possible. Messages can be kept as long your database can handle it. Even full text search is implemented in #Openfire according to @guusdk https://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2022-05-15#2022-05-15-cff31e4b7fc5c30b
