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It might sound weird to say this about the impact of a website, but Bandcamp really has transformed my musical interests and, as a result, my life. I have been able to cultivate & help support a small, shifting, virtual community of artists and listeners that I learned from over the past 13 years. So, it is very sad to hear about the recent sell-off, layoffs and plunder.
cc/ @bandcampunited
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This post from @pettter has me wondering if there are any efforts yet to start to think about what a similar #coop run service might look like?
https://mastodon.acc.umu.se/@pettter/111249022267794376
It seems like Bandcamp is past the startup stage where it could #ExitToCommunity?
https://www.colorado.edu/lab/medlab/2020/08/31/exit-community-community-primer
As much as I personally align with decentralization, there does seem to be some value in a centralized platform for managing payments, storage and discovery for artists whose livelihood depends on trust.
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If anyone has any leads for how to tap into, or start, a conversation about what a #coop run music platform like bandcamp could look like please let me know.
It seems like there must be a very large number of people who would be supportive of a cooperatively run AND FUN site like Bandcamp, that was self sustaining, supported artists, supported its workers, and had a clear governance model.
If it was open-source and could federate that would be great of course too. But first things first.
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@edsu I dunno the admin of it, but I believe the only technical feasible way would be if distributed traffic.
Currently, the more famous a band is, the higher the traffic and higher the bill. A system where you could distribute traffic along fans would flip this dynamic, the more famous the easier to stream.
But of course, peer2peer technology has been demonized by the gatekeepers *exactly* because it renders them useless.
There are certain browsers that use this technology of distribution.
@nonlinear are you thinking of Brave support for IPFS? I know PeerTube uses webtorrent which I believe lets you do torrent downloads in any JavaScript + WebRTC supporting browser?
It would be interesting to learn more about Bandcamp's infrastructure for streaming. I believe their downloads come from Fastly CDN. Having infrastructure set up to Just Work and not be some tech experiment is part of why working with the web we have is important.
@edsu The issue is apple... Lemme tell you what's going on.
Apple, to maintain the 30% cut they get from app store, demand that any browser for iOS to in fact use Safari engine, with just bells and whistles on top.
All iOS browsers are in fact safari, a browser that willingly refuses to accept new browser features like P2P sharing (like IPFS and others).
Of course, since Apple profits twice from rejecting modern browsers.
@nonlinear I can believe it! But Webtorrent runs on Safari just fine?
I think what IPFS are trying to do is important stuff, but I don't think success in replacing Bandcamp with something better is predicated on IPFS adoption?
@edsu I'm very interested in the subject. I'm not a developer, I'm a product/usability designer experienced in P2P (a lot of volunteer work in this area).
If you ever wanna doodle a band p2p approach, I'm game to try. https://zcal.co/nonlinear/commons
Just a doodle, an idea. Then we post to the community to poke holes, suggest improvements.
@nonlinear you know, I was just thinking this morning, that I replacing Bandcamp with something better is largely a UX / Design problem (apart from the governance issues). I think that's what Mastodon (copy TweetDeck) taught us about dislodging Twitter. If people have something familiar to use that isn't run by icky people they will start to move.
@nonlinear but getting the rough edges rounded off, and things looking beautiful is not a developer problem, and isn't really a decentralization problem either. Mastodon seemed to prioritize being usable, and being fun to use, and it helped a lot I think.
@nonlinear a good design is developed and honed over time to the point where users barely notice it anymore because it fits so well. Those designs should be learned from and built on and not reinvented (unless you need to, or have to).
@edsu Design is not to make things beautiful. It's to make things *usable*.
Beauty is one more tool in order to accomplish the goal of usefulness.
Usability overall reduces learning curve and with it rising adoption. Design is strategic, not just cosmetic.
@edsu I agree mastodon is better than twitter but not *truly* p2p.
So, rephrasing: if we can't get away from servers, it's best if they use mastodon model, with instances that interoperate + ways to migrate.
I do think it's a usability/product problem: tools may be there, but if not understood by the audience, it's as if it's not.
Usability drives adoption because it advocates for user. A tool that doesn't serve users (to listen, discover, publish) is yet another solution with no traction.