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The real reason that online-only conferences won’t be allowed to work is because the argument about whether or not online-only conferences can work is a convenient proxy battle for the people who believe their subsidized-travel job perk is more important than the accessibility of their field and the health and safety of its marginalized participants, and who _really_ want to avoid saying so out loud.
@mhoye Hey Mike.
Is it possible for someone (such as me) to ever talk about the people or activities for whom or for which teleconference mediums do not currently work in such a way as to persuade you that we are speaking in good faith?
If not then I would like to know that.
@brainwane It’s a difficult question - I don’t doubt that you’re speaking in good faith, for sure, but I also believe that good faith arguments from well-meaning people that align with entrenched interests are far more often used as convenient justifications than motivators for reflection or change.
@brainwane I don’t want to just hand-wave away your concerns, partly because there is nothing in the world more banal and predictable than the “but the greater good” position I could easily fall into, and mostly because you haven’t actually aired them out yet.
I’m, maybe unfairly, suspicious of marginalized arguments in support of existing hierarchies; I’ve seen them used as weapons of rhetorical convenience too often, by entrenched powers who don’t care about the people making them.
@brainwane but I also want to hear good faith arguments that disagree with my position, because I know what you turn into when you refuse to do that. So, uh, in conclusion mhoye is a land of contrasts.
@mhoye OK. I appreciate you giving me your context. I do genuinely want to talk about this stuff as a motivator for reflection and change.
I am thinking back to the in-person and remote conferences and collaborations I've experienced, facilitated, and organized over the past decades. Several benefits of in-person events that are often hard to get online I listed in the "benefits" section of https://www.harihareswara.net/posts/2022/how-i-thought-about-an-in-person-conference-choice/ when I decided not to attend PyCon in person last year.
@mhoye At this year's PyCon, I had probably 15 to 25 in-depth one-on-one conversations with other people, and in three of them, the other person cried, and I was able to give them a tissue and (if appropriate) hug them.
At a conference many years ago, during the post-workday drinks, I found the vulnerability to tell my boss something I was scared to admit, and he gave me more support than I could have conceived was possible.
Similar examples that come to mind center on trust & vulnerability.
@mhoye I have experienced other problems with online conferences -- discovering/mingling with people who aren't already in my circles; visual fatigue; greater difficulty committing to the event and getting away from everyday distractions to focus on the convening; miscellaneous tech difficulties, etc. I think all of those are soluble, given sufficient structural support and investment in genuinely addressing them.
I'm not as sure re: the trust and vulnerability stuff.
@mhoye At conferences where an acquaintance and I took a walk away from the venue and had a private chat about someone we both knew, swapping incident histories, we felt secure from the risk of surveillance. Even if someone running the conference was friends with that person, the acquaintance and I could easily step away and share info pretty securely.
I don't know of a remote conference platform that I would feel comfortable whisper-networking on.
@mhoye [I probably have more to say but this is a good place to pause.]
@mhoye a response https://toot.cat/@christi3k/110625357143619030 by @christi3k , for others coming to this thread
@brainwane @mhoye @christi3k I don't think you're making the case you think you are making.
@mhoye @christi3k I have now blogged my posts from this thread in case it's useful:
http://harihareswara.net/posts/2023/recently-emitted-elsewhere/
and I am thinking about what Chelsea Troy wrote:
https://chelseatroy.com/2023/04/21/whats-the-point-of-tech-conferences/
"concentrate the right groups of people into a space to catalyze conversations that lead to Big Things."
People drawn to the same event but from wildly different contexts might open my perceptions on perspectives/opportunities. And I'm better at listening deeply, and being corrected, in person.
