So, the comments seem to have stopped. I wonder if it makes sense to stick with the original deadline of Feb 26, or just put together a revised proposal now and open a round of voting so we can practice objecting and determining which objections are valid in this framework.

Again the purpose is both a) to think about adopting integrative consent and b) to practice the integrative consent process.

@mike_hales @michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @johnkuti

@Matt_Noyes 1of3
Responding here not loomio so as to be more lightweight. I find I don’t have much enthusiasm for formal group ‘democratic’ process. I’m happy to be guided thro by a skilled facilitator with goodwill, but have reluctance to internalise and be bound by formal group process of any kind, for any purpose. That’s just temperament - not a large group person, a pair or trio person, responding to actual dynamics of that actual pairing.
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@Matt_Noyes 2of3
a) I wouldn’t expect this personal thing to weigh much in the vote. But wonder how many ppl may be in my ‘camp’?
b) When I want to move something significant in the world I approach it as a matter of skilled teaming, with others more ‘groupish’, oriented to accommodation across differences, and we do a lot of diverse ’touching base’. The team does the work, case by case. Builds multi perspective (= consensus??)
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@Matt_Noyes 3of3
Yes labour intensive, only for significant initiatives. No not practicable for admin in a loose coupled community with small things being frequent. But I am unsure how realistic the expectation of formal group process is, or how many ppl in fact subscribe to the model. I respect that it’s de rigeur w some but believe this to be a temperament ’bubble’ rather than a matter of ’science’. And that’s OK but not guaranteed to work.
@michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @johnkuti

@mike_hales @Matt_Noyes @michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @johnkuti

I'll try explaining my reaction to this proposal here, first, but may repeat on loomio, depending on responses.

Is an organization or is it one instance (server) in a federated social network, where people signed up for accounts, maybe due to some affinity with the ideas of cooperatives?

part 1 of 2

@mike_hales @Matt_Noyes @michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @johnkuti

Part 2 of 2

Or does an organization maintain the instance?

Is it realistic for the members of the instance (the users of the server) to have the same basis of unity as the maintainers?

What democratic protocols are appropriate for which subset of the members of

@bhaugen @mike_hales @michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @johnkuti

This is one reason DisCO interests me. In GT, they have a clear model with three concentric rings: the innermost ring is the co-op members who do the work and admin/management of the co-op. The outermost ring is non-members who do some work but no admin/management. The middle ring is people who are "dating" the co-op, working more closely with the core group and deciding to join (or not).

Could this apply to

> Could this apply to'

I don't think so, but I am not sure I can explain why, and I could also be wrong.

In GT, the work is translating. And the admin/management is about the translating work and its relationship to the source of the material to be translated, where it gets published, why those sources were chosen, how they fit into some political-cultural context, etc etc.

Part 1 of 2

@mike_hales @michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @johnkuti

@Matt_Noyes @mike_hales @michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @johnkuti

Part 2 of 2 (wait, make that 3)

In, the work is maintaining and moderating a Mastodon server. The moderation got very contentious for awhile but then seems to have either settled down or the people who were unhappy left.

Would have been good grounds for a democratic protocol then.

But to try a democratic protocol just for the sake of it seems lifeless.

@bhaugen @mike_hales @michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @johnkuti

Eager to see part 3 of 2 ;-), but meanwhile. I think the "work of" is not so narrow as you suggest - again, DisCO is interesting because it integrates care as work. And everyone who toots is producing content and creating (reinforcing) relationships, network building...

I think for some people has more going on than for others. Some of you work and organize and meet together.

I got a few people I work with who are also in, but it's not the focus of our work.

@mike_hales @michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @johnkuti

@bhaugen @Matt_Noyes @mike_hales @michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @johnkuti

I love this thread and the corresponding one on loomio. I think there are a lot of big questions that point to a lot of unfinished discussions we had during the meltdown last year.

I also find myself feeling a slight existential panic about (similar to during the meltdown) and hope others aren't also feeling that way.


> slight existential panic
Yep. This seems to me natural bcos has been a slogan and an ethos and a loose distributed cultural formation, and is still attempting to become an organisation of some kind, which might warrant the description 'coop'?
@bhaugen @Matt_Noyes @michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @johnkuti

@mike_hales @emi @bhaugen @michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @johnkuti

Interesting! I think of SC as "pleasantly emergent" - whether and how it becomes more formally organized remains to be seen. In the meantime a variety of people, practices, and relationships find space here.

@Matt_Noyes @mike_hales @emi @bhaugen @michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @johnkuti I'm following along with this thread and finding it interesting. I do not feel any existential panic wrt and see it more as "pleasantly emergent", to use Matt's nice turn or phrase. (For me it is primarily an experiment in collectively governed social media platform, the fact that it attracts folks interested in cooperatives is a pleasant side effect.)

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