When you're talking about Linux, it's okay to say that it's "open source".
It's okay to say that it's "free software".
It's okay to call it "GNU/Linux", "Linux", or to mess up its name.
It's okay to refer to it as "the one with the friendly penguin".
Part of RMS' legacy has been an incessant obsession with terminology and pedantry, overshadowing far more important shared objectives which are fundamentally emancipatory in nature.
Pedantry is not activism; it is alienating, not emancipatory.
@eloquence "I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as misogyny, racism and other bigotry is in fact GNU/misogyny, racism and other bigotry - or, as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus misogyny, racism and other bigotry." https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/1376745698692001801
@eloquence Yeah, like, even setting aside just what exactly rms said about underage sex and exactly how should we be interpreting that, he's just *not a good leader*.
On the other hand, after you've done the deed, I think you should also talk about it so people know you had a particular political motive with that deed.
I wish the FSF had done more deeds. It should be the FSF Summer of Code, not GSoC. It should be FSFHub, not Github; FSF-OS not Android.
Under RMS's leadership, the FSF just has had many words and few deeds.
@JordiGH @eloquence see I never understood why it must have political stigma attached to it. Can't some just produce Foss software because they want others to see the code, help maintain, and feel like their giving back to a cool group of like minded people?
I can care less about peoples political motivation for a software, I'd rather know their road map.
I do agree about the FSF needing to push more deeds. They could help promote other programs or host their own.
@jordan31 Politics aren't a stigma. Everything is politics.
Politics are like accents: if you think someone doesn't have them, that's just because they have the same as yours.
@JordiGH no, not everything is political. I tend to steer away from software that is made "political" by the dev/owner. I could care less how you vote or your beliefs, I'm just needing an RSS reader.
Again, I'm not downloading a program to support someone else's political crap, I'm just in need of a open source version of xyz program.
@jordan31 That's a political stance. You're against software that cares about software freedom. You have a position. You don't want to be told that software should be free. You think that shouldn't be said. Those are your politics: be quiet, you don't want to hear it.
@JordiGH that's actually not a political stance. That's just me not caring about the devs political stance.
@JordiGH I don't think you got it but OK. I never said not to say it, I just could care less. People still talk all day long about Foss and their political ideas behind it. Be my guest. Up to me if I ignore it or use the software or simply unplug the internet and say FCK it.
@jordan31 Okay, we'll keep saying it. I'll keep saying it. We all deserve free software and we should have it and we should keep building it.
We should not need non-free software. We should not have a reason to use non-free software.
And I'll keep submitting patches or building free software whenever I can.
@jordan31 And of course you can ignore because you don't care. But if you don't care you can also hear me, because hey, it's the same to you. It's irrelevant what I say as long as I build software, right?
@JordiGH that's good, you should. Its how the system works and allows me to use foss that has less bugs.
politics, free software
@jordan31 @JordiGH The activist that invented RSS was killed because of his political view. RSS is not apolitical. It's imply a decentralised vision of the distribution of information. It seems you have a problem with the definition of political. Gnu licence is political, compagny owned program as well. having an open source version of a program is political
"Can't some just produce Foss software because they want others to see the code, help maintain, and feel like their giving back to a cool group of like minded people?"
What you just described is anti-capitalist. The very idea of collectively owned and maintained services is political by its anti-capitalist nature. If you work on FOSS then you're doing anti-capitalist praxis whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.
@patrick Oh, proprietary software has plenty of politics: it's okay to spy on people, it's okay to control people via software, we need more ads and more data collection from people, shut up and do what the people with money tell you to do, you don't wanna starve, do you?
These are political positions too.
Politics are just opinions about how we should organise our society.
@JordiGH @robey @patrick @eloquence it was in response to calla for sqlite to have a code of conduct. i don’t know whether this part is true, but what he claomed was that since he’s the only developer, having a code of conduct was kind of absurd. so he put up a statement about how he conducts himself.
@patrick @robey @JordiGH @eloquence it’s precisely that situation that a code of conduct is for- and it’s certainly not some weird trend in software, codes of conduct are standard in pretty much all other industries, if anything it’s software that’s weird for thinking it doesn’t need them.
it’s like a contract- it doesn’t really matter what’s in it, so long as everyone understands up front what they are agreeing to. leaving things unstated and assumed leads to problems worse than balkinising.
@patrick @robey @JordiGH @eloquence and its situations like the fsf, and ICE’s use of software against its author’s wishes, and lots of other unintended consequences of the concept of free software that has led to a reckoning. we shouldn’t treat foss as an infallible good, like it’s a cult. it has failed us and we should question it, absolutely. stating all political agendas up front is part of that.
@patrick @robey @JordiGH @eloquence i am really not sure, about even whether we are arguing woth each other or just talking about a subject in vague agreement. as a guess, maybe you are worried that pushy people vocal about their politics will discourage cooperation in the free software realm? i think i see the phenomenon you’re describing but see it more as a reaction to uh, monstrously abusive figures in the free software realm that have been tolerated so far using excuses like that
@patrick @robey @JordiGH @eloquence if i am gay, or black or jewish or trans, i would certainly want to know up front whether or not the founder believes i deserve to exist or be treated as a full equal human being. it’s the privilege of the favoured class of people to not need to worry about the politics of an organisation. for everyone else it’s a matter of survival.
@patrick @robey @JordiGH @eloquence twitter’s gonna twitter. it’s a ahame that the medium encourages that viral knee jerk reactionary shit, but i am pretty suspicious of any claim that it represents a coherent group of people, or a movement, or some kind of scary phenomenon. i thought everyone just overreacted to a misunderstanding. in their defense, sqlite guy is not a skilled PR person, which is normally what it takes to avoid these sorts of issues.
@patrick stupid people
say stupid things, and nothing brings out the stupid like communication mediums with extremely low barriers to entry, no cooldown periods, forced brevity, and features that encourage the deletion of context
@patrick @JordiGH @zens @eloquence i think you might be making the same mistake as the sqlite people in this case: a code of "conduct" is different from a code of "ethics". COE is what they believe inside. COC is a statement of expected behavior. it prevents misunderstandings about someone's actions.
if i ask a project for its COC and they tell me they worship the pangolin gods of venus, i'm going to very naturally be concerned. :)
@patrick @JordiGH @zens @eloquence the paragraph you quoted would -- to me -- suffice as a perfectly fine CoC on its own. it's a good example of the form. it declares expected behavior and how they handle violations: the very definition of a CoC.
i can't comment on the rest of it because i couldn't even make it past 3 items on their cult declaration page before i closed the tab.
(i don't understand your "company manual" paragraph but i haven't really been following the thread)
@JordiGH @jordan31 @eloquence For what it’s worth, they’ve been looking to host a modern forge since not very long ago. Not sure if they’ve got enough money to pay hundreds of students for coding every year though… and same for phones, really; it’s hard for me to assess what the FSF could or could not have achieved in that field, but the efforts of Canonical, OpenMoko, Purism and KDE leave me with some doubts.
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