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This post from @pettter has me wondering if there are any efforts yet to start to think about what a similar #coop run service might look like?

https://mastodon.acc.umu.se/@pettter/111249022267794376

It seems like Bandcamp is past the startup stage where it could #ExitToCommunity?
https://www.colorado.edu/lab/medlab/2020/08/31/exit-community-community-primer

As much as I personally align with decentralization, there does seem to be some value in a centralized platform for managing payments, storage and discovery for artists whose livelihood depends on trust.

2/3

If anyone has any leads for how to tap into, or start, a conversation about what a #coop run music platform like bandcamp could look like please let me know.

It seems like there must be a very large number of people who would be supportive of a cooperatively run AND FUN site like Bandcamp, that was self sustaining, supported artists, supported its workers, and had a clear governance model.

If it was open-source and could federate that would be great of course too. But first things first.

3/3

@edsu I dunno the admin of it, but I believe the only technical feasible way would be if distributed traffic.

Currently, the more famous a band is, the higher the traffic and higher the bill. A system where you could distribute traffic along fans would flip this dynamic, the more famous the easier to stream.

But of course, peer2peer technology has been demonized by the gatekeepers *exactly* because it renders them useless.

There are certain browsers that use this technology of distribution.

@nonlinear are you thinking of Brave support for IPFS? I know PeerTube uses webtorrent which I believe lets you do torrent downloads in any JavaScript + WebRTC supporting browser?

It would be interesting to learn more about Bandcamp's infrastructure for streaming. I believe their downloads come from Fastly CDN. Having infrastructure set up to Just Work and not be some tech experiment is part of why working with the web we have is important.

@edsu The issue is apple... Lemme tell you what's going on.

Apple, to maintain the 30% cut they get from app store, demand that any browser for iOS to in fact use Safari engine, with just bells and whistles on top.

All iOS browsers are in fact safari, a browser that willingly refuses to accept new browser features like P2P sharing (like IPFS and others).

Of course, since Apple profits twice from rejecting modern browsers.

@edsu I guess you can have any kinda app, but if it's a browser, it needs to be safari engine.

It's all very arbitrary, I know. But allowing modern browsers would mean death of apps, since tools could ask user to use so-and-so browser instead.

Maybe a full on app with p2p sharing features, but that means you still need to pay 30% to apple.

Or not. Netflix doesn't pay. It's a might is right situation.

@edsu And I dunno if IPFS is the solution. There's dav,others. It would be nice if app abstracts the engine it uses, as long as it's seamless to listeners.

But whatever Bandcamp alternative should use mastodon governance model (instances as servers, think record labels) and a p2p streaming engine.

@nonlinear you know, I was just thinking this morning, that I replacing Bandcamp with something better is largely a UX / Design problem (apart from the governance issues). I think that's what Mastodon (copy TweetDeck) taught us about dislodging Twitter. If people have something familiar to use that isn't run by icky people they will start to move.

@nonlinear but getting the rough edges rounded off, and things looking beautiful is not a developer problem, and isn't really a decentralization problem either. Mastodon seemed to prioritize being usable, and being fun to use, and it helped a lot I think.

@nonlinear a good design is developed and honed over time to the point where users barely notice it anymore because it fits so well. Those designs should be learned from and built on and not reinvented (unless you need to, or have to).