@dogjaw if you follow people, but we don't have full text search, so hashtags are super key for #discovery.

@ink_slinger @mattcropp

OK, I'm listening, from someone who on surface totally understands hashtags, but yet does not understand as in best or useful way to use them, do you have suggestions? etiquette info new or unique to mastodon re hashtags? i've always stayed away from on twitter, the long cluster of 20 one post, or hashtagThisIsAsillyNonsense phrases — but then thinking maybe missing out on some real functionality, thanks

@magenta @mattcropp I don't have great advice, just use relevant tags that you think people might search for to find the content you're sharing.

@ink_slinger @mattcropp

<< since search is limited to hashtags, not all in-line text. >>

thank you, did not know

@ink_slinger @mattcropp what's the reasoning behind lack of search? Fulltext search is what makes Twitter good (and Facebook bad).

@mattbk @mattcropp My understanding is that it's to prevent harassment, so you can't just search "otherkin" and harass random users who identify as such, for example.

@Gargron would know for sure, though.

@vilbi Not sure; don't exactly know how hashtags cross federate, but I definitely see hashtagged posts from people not on my instance when I search.

@mattcropp if you search for #hashtag you may find a toot 15 days old, describing parts of it with an excample. And I often find only my own simple hashtags, but maybe nobody uses hashtags...
#search #find

@bvtsang I get that feeling, but wonder if it's porting norms developed in the context of the logic of one platform into a different context that has different needs?

@mattcropp I think the logic is the same between the platforms (assuming you're talking about Twitter), but the culture is different.

Though one way hashtags make sense to me is to think of them like tags/categories on regular blog posts. I could end up using hashtags anyway, but they would just end up at the bottom of a post (like this one) instead of in the middle. As a result they look more natural and less intrusive.

#meta #hashtag

@bvtsang @mattcropp YES, place them at end makes sense for other various apps/services I use, for tags, labels, categories. such as google KEEP. i'll try to use here. what turned me off with twitter was hashtag SillyLongPhraseAndNotUseful or the 25 mini hashtags in a row
#hashtag

@magenta @mattcropp I think the key part to using hashtags habitually is to think of Mastodon as microblogging. Seems kinda obvious in retrospect: blogs have tags, they have text (we happen to have 500 characters), and you can comment on other microblogs.

When I use Mastodon I don't think of it as microblogging though, but more as a place to dump a stream of consciousness and occasionally check what everyone else is up to. This is probably why I don't use hashtags much.

@mattcropp @magenta In other words, I don't usually categorize the things I post here (with the exception of #overwatch).

Though with that said I'm not sure if I'd want to classify everything I post. Might be useful if you're doing things like #FF or other regular, scheduled events though.

@bvtsang @magenta

I've come to appreciate integrating the #hashtags into the body of text rather than appending them to the end, both for space and because can function to emphasize a particular aspect of a #conversation, inviting those with interest in that aspect to offer their perspective, while also inviting those already in the conversation to explore a new community space.

@mattcropp yeah, ok, gotta say this method #works as well. ok, thanks, now i've got a variety of ways to approach #hashtags , now just wait & find out if any particular mastodon etiquette emerges

@mattcropp @bvtsang @magenta I've found mastodon hashtags combined with 500 have created a new opportunity for a collection of posts over time (#smallstories).
But I've also noticed that not all posts get picked up in a hashtag search.
Collaborative microblogging is a helpful way to think.

@katebowles by 500 you refer to the character count or something else? and yes, that's an interesting #creative concept

@magenta The character count. It's made #smallstories possible in a way that birdsite doesn't without a storm of tweets. 500 is discipline but space. So here I find myself thinking more about writing as art practice, not just talk.

@katebowles & of course, when click on #smallstories mastodon returns nothing, even with my looking right at your Toot! with that hashtag. which has nothing to do with what you just said, yes, the 500 is interesting idea/format

@magenta Now this is interesting, because I'd had the impression the hashtag function isn't fully working. I wonder if @maloki has thoughts? Or @Gargron? This is on the web version. So when I click on it, I see #smallstories toots, but not all of them.

@magenta @katebowles hashtags ought to only work for known content, ie federated content to the server you are on.
If there are other bugs I'm unaware of them.

@maloki OK, to be clear let me ask back to you.

If I'm on instance DOG & search for #exampleOne then it will find all of that hashtag on my local instance of DOG

& will it also find all of that hashtag on any instance that DOG is following, but not on any that DOG is not following?

@magenta any users, that users from DOG are following, not an instance as a whole.
However, DOG can "find out" about other posts by boosts etc.

@maloki so even if the instance DOG is connected or whatever is officially called, from DOG to another instance, CAT, the search for hashtags only works on DOG and anyone on CAT that the person on DOG is following on CAT? ok that seems limiting

@magenta yes it is. But that is how federation works, right now. this is why boosting hashtagged posts can be really useful to get a good spread of it :)

@maloki so (being slow) if I follow you, so find your posts in my search & I boost your post, then anyone in my instance can find it our just my followers? 😶

@katebowles @magenta Love that idea of "writing as art," Kate. I am appreciative of the brevity on Twitter -- it forces you to leave narrative gaps and be attentive to every single word -- and also of the extended length here.

@bvtsang @magenta @mattcropp I sometimes use #Mastodon as a place to dump a stream of consciousness, too, I have to admit. Especially when I write in #Russian 😊 . I use #hashtags extensively, though.

@magenta I'd say the shortness rule should be relaxed for #Mastodon, and the maximum 2 per post should be loosened. #Dont #tag #every #word, but mixing #hashtags judiciously can make a #toot a point of fruitful intersection between multiple streams of interest.

@mattcropp #dont #tag #every and i'd add #PleaseNoEndlessSillyHashtags

@mattcropp
I think I prefer to think about it in a different framing - not about 'missing an audience', but about joining in conversations.

In that sense, I find semi-random #hashtagging to be a sort of rudeness to those conversations. It seems to encourage noise and prevents the social filtering aspect of these sites to work as people learn and explore those conversations.

For me, its not fun to scroll thru hashtags that seem unfocused.

@mattcropp
On instagram, there's a trend where sellers will include a blob of 30 hashtags "under the fold" where they aren't seen - as a way to try and target an audience.

To me, I feels this kind of "audience" framing devolves into the same kind of hot-mess that was the early use of keywords for the web, or how easily youtube was gamed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSpAWkQLlgM

Sadly, even the term 'conversation' has become a synonym with hashtag spamming.