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inline poll: should SocialCoop be one of the signatories of the [[Fedipact]] effort to *preemptively defederate* with Threads.net?

loomio.com/d/AZcJK6y2 is an ongoing Loomio discussion about this but I wanted to see some in-instance discussion ideally.

LoomioDiscussion: Support the Anti-Meta Fedi PactFor some time, there have been rumors that Meta (Facebook) has plans to impose itself on the Fediverse. These rumors have recently been confirmed, with the news that Meta is developing a clone of Mastodon, referred to as "Project 92", "Barcelona", or "Threads", and that it has had a meeting with the administrators of several large Mastodon instances, possibly including Eugen Rochko, while silencing them with a non-disclosure agreement.Meta is an oligopoly that has aggressively sought to control social media, through absorption of other social media companies, and through policies of "embrace, extend, and extinguish", as with the RSS and XMPP protocols. Meta, through Facebook, is infamous for condoning the spread of far right ideology and of dangerous misinformation.There have been calls for pre-emptively blocking Meta's project. In particular, @vantablack@beach.city, administrator of a small Mastodon instance, beach.city, has proposed the Anti-Meta Fedi Pact.https://fedipact.online/I see our best hope in collective resistance.Therefore, I would like us to discuss whether we should support this move, and if so, how best to do so. As a starting point for discussion, I suggest the following:<br>Social.Coop commits to blocking any Fediverse instances that Meta creates.<br>We, as a body, sign the Anti-Meta Fedi Pact.<br>We follow up by collectively drafting and issuing a public statement.<br>(As I have not been active in Social.Coop discussions, I hope that the way I am presenting this is appropriate, and I welcome constructive criticism.)

@flancian I thinking "limit" option is the best choice for us, and I think that prevents us from being a signatory.

@ntnsndr thanks for your input -- I think I agree!

@flancian @ntnsndr I'm curious: are you unaware of the huge volumes of content on Threads which is against the social.coop rules / code of conduct? or do you think Facebook deserves an exception to defederation for some reason?

@3wordchant @ntnsndr thank you so much for raising this point!

I am unaware of the fraction involved, and you're right I should be made aware. I am also unaware in detail of the position of [[threads]] w.r.t. blocking well-defined subsets of users en masse, which is the direction I think we should go in in the general case of very large instances that cater to large diverse populations while maintaining a reasonable approximation of a rational pro-social ethical stance in the case of conflicts.

@3wordchant @ntnsndr in general I just want to try to think first, as a community, of the large number of *people* who are in [[threads]] because that's where they friends are, for example -- and how to help them onboard to the as well as we can!

I would rather their first contact is with friendly open people and groups like those at

@3wordchant @ntnsndr of course no tolerance for fascists goes without saying?

@flancian @3wordchant Unfortunately I think there is need for treating Threads a bit differently than other instances, given that is so large and varied. Despite its failures of enforcement and policy, there is at least a bare-bones policy against hate speech, which distinguishes it from platforms that actively encourage such things. help.instagram.com/47743410562

The problems it poses should be weighed against the benefits, esp. enabling our members to reach a larger network of people.

@flancian @3wordchant I don't think we have much leverage against Threads by refusal to federate with our few hundred members. In contrast, being visible on threads could help more people there see the option of doing social media cooperatively.

Unlike a space like Gab, most people are joining Threads simply by default, and are not directly associating with the accounts you mention.

I think limiting, is an appropriate compromise.

@ntnsndr I don't see how the implication that we'd federate with Gab if it had a few million more non-bigoted users is in line with s.c's Federation Abuse Policy.

Folks who want to do outreach to Threads (or Gab) users are completely able to sign up for accounts on those platforms if they like; going back to "balance" it seems obvious that s.c users' safety is more important than making life slightly more convenient for that subset of users who want to evangelise in that way (1/2)

@flancian

@3wordchant What do we gain in safety by defederating that we wouldn’t gain by limiting?

If we limit, then we will not see any Threads posts in the federated TL. If SC users decide to follow individual Threads accounts and boost any toxic bigotry into local, they’ll be in violation of our own internal codes of behavior and will be dealt with.

This does raise a new Q though. Are we in violation of rules if we quote boost something in order to critique it? Are CWs sufficient?
@ntnsndr @flancian

@jotaemei @3wordchant @flancian I think our rules and moderation team are wise enough to detect the difference between affirmation and critique.

Thanks for these points.

MJ

@ntnsndr I worded that concern poorly. Yes, I expect as much from our rules and moderation team, but I was thinking still about how even quote boosted posts could be triggering for some members, and if we should have some guidelines for those cases. @3wordchant @flancian