@ntnsndr I think it would be tricky to reach consensus as groups usually have a bunch of less active members that are unlikely to participate in governance processes.

A common practise seems to be small coherent core group of very motivated people get it all going, and it can grow more formal democratic structure later when the bureaucracy seems worth it.

I'd be more in for "everyone can do everything" until it gets to a certain size/age, then nudge towards more process/structure.

@emsenn nice! Thanks for the Fred Herbert introduction.

I'll try reading the article --> ferd.ca/you-reap-what-you-code (I'm just about finished reading Tools for Conviviality and Illich is mentioned in the article, so seems fitting).

I find some people online that really embody this other tech culture, but I won't be satisfied until I actually see it with my own eyes in my own local community. I think I have some work to do there :)

There's a culture of tech that is about humans interacting with machines. As if it's only a logical/technical activity. No room for emotions and all that soft stuff.

Then another culture of "tech" that's really about rich people extracting wealth (via data) from other people. Harnessing tech for some goal.

I want the culture of tech, where it's about people interacting with people, with an unobtrusive technology layer to facilitate an essentially human activity. Tech as a supporting tool.

"Why do the most popular #socialmedia platforms provide such limited affordances for the important work of community organizing and movement building? Why is the time, energy, and brilliance of so many designers, software devlopers, product managers, and others who work on platforms focused on optimizing our digital world to capture and monetize our attention, over other potential goals (e.g. maximizing civic engagement, making environmentally sustainable choices, buiding empathy ... ?)"

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@Matt_Noyes totally! I don't find it so bureaucratic even, just helping people understand what kind of community behaviour is appreciated.

Maybe worth a loomio discussion/vote? I don't know if I feel the energy to create one though :/

@flancian I wonder if allowlist federation for all of the fediverse would be a better default. The length of the blocklists that go around seems to get unmanageable at some point.

I, and many others, aren't here to have conversations with the entire world. The burden of moderation is crazily high in that case, it doesn't seem to scale.

I'd be quite happy to interact with a small set of curated instances/people (like in physical life). Dunbars number perhaps.

@flancian I already muted you :) ... but kept the notifications on, so if you mention me I still see it.

We have a gridlocked set of needs here, well muting is fine for me. I try and not read too much stuff online anyway.

@flancian I'm also not very interested in connecting to the great masses on twitter. My personal preference would be allowlist-only federation actually. A smaller more curated fediverse.

@flancian I'm not opposing crossposting in general, just sharing my request that those accounts be marked as such, and that I can get a better idea if it's worth replying to a toot (it's not clear if replying to a crossposted tweet will engage the author).

Having crossposting accounts seperated means I can then choose to mute them, but the person can still interact directly on the fediverse too. Right now I have to choose, either mute their crossposting activity AND direct activity or neither.

We're evolving the governance features of karrot and looking for examples of existing community guidelines, rules, agreements, etc.

This is to make sure the model we come up with will be usable for a range of different groups with different approaches.

Any you can share with us?

To get the ball rolling the noisebridge ones are a good example for us to look at --> noisebridge.net/wiki/Community

Boosts for visibility welcome!

/by social.coop/@nicksellen

If you crosspost from twitter to mastodon I would really appreciate it if you marked your account as a bot (see superuser.com/a/1439495 for explanation of the effect).

If it's a dual purpose account (i.e. crossposting AND direct posting), then I would appreciate it if you created a separate account for the twitter crossposting and marked that as a bot account.

Crossposted tweets appear as a mess of broken links, missing threads, and the account is often unresponsive to replies.


I really wanted to ride a cargo bike here and today I had my first day riding one!

From now I'll ride every week or two collecting and delivering things for a local share and repair project.

Today I delivered some clothes to be repaired by a retired seamstress, collected a newly fixed pressure washer, delivered a dehumidifier on loan, and more.

The bike itself is also on loan, and after me used to pickup surplus food for another project.

Small steps individually but a nice way I think.

I'm very appreciative that our lovely translators have translated karrot 100% into German, Spanish, Luxembourgish, Czech, and Esperanto.

... and over 80% into Polish, French, Swedish, and Hindi.

... and then some in Chinese, Portuguese, Brazilian Portuguese, Russian, Italian, Marathi, and Gujarati.

Yay for translators πŸš€ 🀩

(I'm a little sad though that contributing to the rest of the project is limited to English).

/by social.coop/@nicksellen

Want to know more about what is going on with social.coop?

Did you know that the Community Working Group Ops team and the Tech Working Group Ops team post their regular meeting minutes on loomio?

Check them out here:
CWG Ops team: loomio.org/d/yh0aFRbU/communit

Tech team: loomio.org/d/UwAeiBgE/tech-mee

@neil I have a feeling parents say stuff like that all the time "oh you could make money from that", and kids seem to echo phrases from the adults around them as the process of learning language.

And adults get that from years of compulsory education and work.

Even if they watch nice co-operative cartoons it probably just seems like a fantasy world if it's not embodied in the physical world around them.

@RussSharek to my mind it already was put in the public domain. An improvised live performed exists only in the moment. No bureaucracy needed!

I used to study composition more "properly" and produce scores, recordings, and scheduled performances, but now the casual Impromptu improvised performance, with others if around, suits me much better.

I wish music was generally more like this. Very easy to participate in and feels alive.


@vfrmedia I don't *think* this kid even has much access/connection to all that, and this "you could make money from that" thinking is deeply in all the adults too. I think it's so pervasive, it's in the air with breathe. Almost.

Horrifying to see how it's reinforced so actively as you describe though! Would at least hope for *some* youth backlash.

Once we get to the play park though it's all fine again. Swings! Roundabouts! Slides! Yay!


I was hanging out with a 12 year old today. I did some improvising on the piano. He liked it but said he didn't know it. I told him it was my own creation. He seemed amazed, then said I need to copyright it so I can make money from it.

So sad this market logic has penetrated so deeply into even kids brains like this.

And the amazement I don't think was that it was so amazing in itself, but that people can even create things like that.

We have a truly detached way of being over here.

@neil I wouldn't say the 'work' org is *responsible* for what you do outside, but responsible to leave enough space for you to construct a viable life.

I personally like working in very personal environments with a very pourous boundary between "work" and "life", others might want it more distinct, but I really hope the individuals involved are able to be in control of what that arrangement is, to make up their own recipe for life.

even the democratic will of a co-op can dominate people.

@neil to me the key thing is having *some* method of understanding and accounting (however informal) for care work, both inside and outside of an org.

time tracking is a tool sitting on the shelf that a person or org/group might use to help with that.

values vs strategies to achieve them.

from what I've read of DiSCO stuff, it still makes complete sense without time tracking.

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