does anyone else find it depressing when ppl with more established careers start patreons

like, shit, if so-and-so needs a side hustle, what hope do any of us have?

it feels like tipping—subsidizing the shitty pay of art/academia/whatever

i feel like the patreon/substackification of everything forces people to commodify shit they might normally do for free just as a hobby or whatever, and you gotta sell it as Vital Work even if it's the equivalent of an npr fundraiser tote bag. idk, just my impression, ymmv

@nev Agreed. And, since Patreon is a for profit company they love the big names. When they were blogging and podcasting about their creators it always seemed to be the biggies. So, again how are the 'creatives' they are trying to help supposed to stand out?

@sikkdays @nev the fact that people who feel they have to solicit donations through one of a small number of large, likely rent-seeking platforms compounds the problem.

Not only are people's livelihoods becoming more insecure, they remain beholden to the whims of the platforms facilitating their donation income. It's like all of the insecurity of self employment combined with the lack of freedom of employment with large corporations.

First YouTubers, then Uber drivers, now this. #GigEconomy

@msh @sikkdays yes!! I left Patreon after proposed fee changes designed to benefit big creators at the expense of small ones. They went back on it after a lot of outcry, but I hate using platforms where the only way to have input is, like, "customer service" pressure.

One of my ongoing gripes about YT & FB (which I use for work) is that you constantly gotta switch up your strategy based on their ever-changing algorithms & attempts to get you to use their platform exclusively

@msh @sikkdays @nev Patreon-like sites do not rely on the network effect. You can start your own tomorrow and start collecting for your friends or for artists you like. I bet there are even Wordpress plugins that would help you set something like that up.

This is where Patreon and its ilk differ from Youtube and Uber.

@branko @msh @sikkdays I'd disagree - a big part of Patreon's convenience is that it provides a single platform and "feed" for people to see all the creators they're subscribing to, as well as a standardized subscription/rewards/goal structure

@nev @branko @sikkdays

There are definitely ways Patreon can and do introduce network effects. However even if they strictly remained a payment processor they certainly establish lock-in as well.

Currently it isn't easy to migrate away from patreon and take supporters with you. Not only is it a question of actual payment processing there are all the other tools and features relating to deliverables (perks, exclusive content and so on)

@msh @nev @branko @sikkdays Patreon is currently my largest income stream and while on some levels that is great, on others it makes me nervous as heck, because I've been using the internet since 1994-ish and I think all platforms are like unto MySpace.

@branko @msh @nev As the creator, maybe the network effect isn't helpful, as you get lost in the void like birbsite and FB. However, I personally believe Patreon, the company benefits from what you call the network effect.

@nev this! Or the assumption that you need to waste time generating perks in order to get donations.

@mattbk yeah, i found thinking of/producing rewards as onerous as writing the main thing. i found that most people were happy to just donate with nothing special in return

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