what would it mean to actually commit to providing housing as a human right?

well, for one, real estate agencies would not exist. real estate would not be an industry. real estate agent would not be a job anyone would do.

the day cannot come soon enough

i'm well aware canada's healthcare system is vastly inadequate, but just imagine if the housing system were anywhere near what the healthcare system was like.

for-profit housing should be as obscene as for-profit healthcare. flipping houses should be seen as as unethical as hiking up insulin prices.

@nev i've been thinking about this quite a lot, and knowing about 93% of current real estate brokers wouldn't work real estate if it was legally and only a not-for-profit profession with provincial regulation like other "real" professions

@nev …especially so since there are brokers coming thru my place every other day with prospectors who will eventually displace me from a home

@nev,, and admins have gotta add a guillotine emoji to their sets!

@melissasage @nev hi @chr could we submit this guillotine emoji on for use in :D

@nev @patience can I also interest you in this brand new molotov emoji? :molotov:

@mathieu @patience [Jason from "The Good Place": "Any time I had a problem, and I threw a Molotov cocktail...boom, right away, I had a different problem."]

Doesn't Canada have a mixed system. An excellent public healthcare system and a private insurance system that a lot of people also use?

@Ventronik it varies from province to province but what we have here in ontario is basically universal health insurance. doctors bill the government for services they do. however, public health insurance doesn't cover everything (e. g. prescription medications, dental care, eye care), so people pay out of pocket or get private insurance for it (through their job). or more commonly go without.

@nev I vaguely remember a time before all those house flipping shows trained everyone to think of their house as an investment instead of, you know, a home. So many people, even ones who will never flip a home, are afraid to design their home the way they'd prefer because it might hurt the "resale value" because they've been brainwashed to think of their house primarily as an investment in the future rather than a place to live their lives.

@nev I know this is not exactly the same as what you're talking about but, boy, does it reflect how "market thinking" has infiltrated every aspect of our lives. No wonder we've turned housing into a commodity.

@nev Let me put it this way: Lol.

Just because housing is a human right, that doesn't mean there is no more demand for housing. In first place this would mean, that when you can't afford an own place, your government would pay/provide you a "basic" place.

And there is sadly a difference between something being a human right, and everyone respecting this human right :/

Sorry for the reality crash :X

@sheogorath yes, that's the idea. the government would own virtually all housing, and everyone's rent would be geared to their income.

@nev Oh, that's a very different interpretation of human rights, than I have.

Over here we basically have such right and it's definitely not like that. It's more the case that you find a flat that is in an expected range, and if you don't make enough money you can ask the government to help you there (means they will pay a certain amount of your rent).

But that's quite far away from what you expect from this human right .-.

@sheogorath yeah, a universal rent subsidy program (and tight controls on how much rent you can charge, and on what you can build) would be more realistic. the leader of our social democratic party has made a large rent subsidy program one of his campaign promises for the upcoming federal election

@nev hm… I don't follow. If you guarantee, say, healthcare as a human right, you'd still need doctors. If you guarantee employment, you'd still need people assessing skills and keeping track of open positions, etc. Same with realtors. Their job would probably change, but someone will have to do the job. Also, having something as a right doesn't preclude the luxury layer of the same thing for those who want to pay more.

@isagalaev i mean, here in canada people can go somewhere else and pay out of pocket for non-covered healthcare treatment if they want. likewise people could always go out of the country to buy a house 🙃

@nev what I mean is, if I want a place to live, and I can afford to pay for something that's above the basic level, I wouldn't want to become a professional home buyer and learn all the intricacies of the process, I'd rather pay a real estate agent to do it for me.

In other words, having something as a right doesn't eliminate the fact that people would want different things and would want to choose.

@nev hello, nice meeting you at this apartment
let me unlock the door for you
actually i cannot answer any questions you have, but do take a look around
if you decide to rent this apartment, I'll be taking a third of your first rent
thank you and have a good day

@nev I'd assume there would still be nice houses and crap houses around, thus people would still want to trade them?

@nev housing is a human right. Most just don't know that yet and no one has written it down.

(Including the ones managing the list of human rights I suppose)

@nev I'm proud to be on the same instance with you :D ✊

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