If your instance says you will love and respect bigots ironically, I’m probably not going to pick up that irony. Especially not if you’re pals with FSE folks and love swastika jokes.
@brainblasted FSE ? What is that ?
@catonano freespeechextremists
@brainblasted @catonano Co-option of the term "free speech" scares me when by those who want to be allowed themselves to speak on all platforms but who are are more than willing to threaten people who speak in ways that they believe are oppositional to their own views. So-called FSEs are not consistent, and it's ok and even good for communities to define their own boundaries.
The muddying of the waters is also dangerous because free speech is one of the few defenses against fascism we have.
@cwebber @brainblasted @catonano In my opinion, it's too late for that. "Free speech" has been a dog-whistle for white supremacists for a good chunk of the 20th century, and at this point in time it's impossible to be anything but. For example, here's a case from Canadian history: https://twitter.com/BashirMohamed/status/1044667843244023808
It is important to think about exactly what you mean by "free speech". WHO do you see included in this space? Who *don't* you want to include? What is up for debate, and what isn't?
@nev @brainblasted @catonano White supremacists have *no interest* in actual freedom of speech; they're lying, and we should call them liars. Look at how differently they respond when they say something "controvercial" vs when someone says something they don't like. They'll claim they can say anything *unchallenged*, anywhere, because of freedom of speech (false), but threaten violence against those they disagree with.
@nev @brainblasted @catonano This is really important IMO. Look at how Trump has expressed over and over that he'd love to see journalists punished and threatened. As bad as things are now, the only thing that's holding him back from that (and he would love to do it) is our tradition of freedom of speech and integrity in this culture. Nobody benefits from lack of freedom of speech more than a fascist.
Call white supremacists liars. They don't want freedom of speech, and we know it.
@bob @catonano @cwebber @nev @brainblasted This was on my mind not too long ago when I posted this toot- https://ourempty.pub/@sikkdays/102061458851370610
@bob @cwebber @brainblasted @nev
Exactly
Recently I read a thread about how the taxes system and the slaves liberation were initiatives by the same politicians
So the not said in the rethoric of the low taxes and the minimal government was that taxes would have benefited blacks from the first day
I myself see the merit of free speech and even of free (to some extent) markets
But these are used in a competely instrumental way
@bob @cwebber @brainblasted @nev
I might have given the impression of being oblivious to the value of freedom of speech
I'm not
It's just that I don't want to fall for that ugly rethorical hack
@nev @brainblasted @catonano @cwebber
What disgusts me is how Nazis go "Nobody wants to talk about *leftism* becuase it's too extreme. I think we all need to take a deep breath and in the interest of civility, be Nazis."
And then NPR goes "Hmm yes, the left IS extreme. Maybe nazisim is okay if it's against the left"
@Roxxie_Riot @nev @brainblasted @catonano @cwebber
A lot of people younger than me don't realize how long NPR has been playing this game. Way, way longer than Trump that's for sure. (Oh, and Air America was a cesspool of Reagan hagiography and punching Left from the day it came to be and I cheered when it bit the dust.)
Peachy Meta
@cwebber @nev @brainblasted @catonano
Y'know... over the years I've been frozen out of certain spaces, banned from a couple, asked/ordered to leave at least one. I'd be the first to say that mods have a right to be bad mods: to play favorites jr. high-style. To go against their own stated principles for the sake of keeping order and their own self-image intact, etc. But I'm also fine with thinking/stating 'til the day I die that bad mods can all eat a bag of dicks. :P "Free speech."
@nev @brainblasted @catonano I agree that such communities try to use it as a dog whistle, but I think there are reasons to defend the principle, but the way white supremacists are using it *isn't* within the principle, which needs to be called out.
Some of the most important aspects of freedom of speech are also the freedom to filter and the right/responsibility to call someone an asshole, which many don't get... "you can't say that, it's their freedom of speech". Yeah I can; this is mine.