Puzzled . . @mako makes a clear pitch on "Free software production needs free tools" youtube.com/watch?v=U_nK6nP_RC
And is very clear on and (though says most code comes from solo not collaboration!). Yet not a hint of coop ownership of to keep tools honest & open (GitHub!). Surely tools today become platforms? And platforms require collaboration even if code doesn't? So why doesn't follow automatically, as we talk tools? How does libre not equal coop in FLOSS world?

@mike_hales Cooperative management of shared infrastructure is path to "libre." A more libertarian approach is decentralization and federation around fixed (or cooperatively managed?) protocols which deemphasize the need for shared infrastructure in some way.

If we believe that effective cooperatives will be limited in scale or scope, a combination of the two may be necessary. This is more or less what we have here at social.coop which is part of a larger federated network.

@mako So if I'm understanding . . the problem with GitHub wasn't that it wasn't cooperatively owned by users (and so could be sold for $7.5bn into corporate hands). But that it wasn't - as a *platform* (a system of tools in the cloud) - open (even though the code in the repository was). Wasn't distributed. Wasn't operated as (socially & operationally) federated nodes?

And if multiple smaller discrete instances of infrastructure is the model, the pivot is the collective 'ownership' of protocols?

@mike_hales We should remember that although the consequences rarely involve being sold to Microsoft cooperative organizations also become oligarchic—e.g. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law.

Peer production & Internet-based cooperativism is hardly immune: mako.cc/academic/shaw_hill-lab

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@mako "Cooperative organisations become oligarchic"

Oh bugger! You mean they still have PEOPLE in them? Greed, ego, stuff like that? O shit! I'm going to bed. ;-)

Tomorrow I'll start work on a dhamma gene, to be compulsorily installed in all persons at conception. Now THAT's how to make democracy work. 😞

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