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@emi @Matt_Noyes
1 I'd say solidarity economy is intersection of community and TRADE, not finance. Intersection of community and finance is something more like Kleiner's (Telekommunist Manifesto]. Solidarity economy movement maybe pays too little attention to finance, and capital, and surplus value, is more concerned with local & global economic networks of ''stuff'?
2 Maybe it’s multi-stakeholder co-ops in the intersection of labour & community, rather than worker co-ops?

mike_hales @mike_hales

@Matt_Noyes @emi Glad you pointed out your analysis matt. Will respond when I get an hour or two. Lots of connections here I feel Though broadly, I take a view . . seems somehow more strategic to me than solidarity econ, goes analytically deeper? Easier to apply to social.coop, question mark. Maybe less easy to agitate around? More anon.

@mako is strong on P2P commons, in keynote, and very clear on how history is moving for free software folks

@mike_hales @mako @emi @Matt_Noyes

I like both (P2P commons and solidarity econ) and think they go together nicely and have complementary depths. P2P has yet to figure out how a mutual coordination economy works. I know, because I have been talking to them about it for several years. But they definitely like and champion solidarity economy developments.

@bhaugen "Mutual coordination economy"? Say more? That's different from P2P?

@bhaugen Thanks bob. I thought you were suggesting P2PF doesn't 'get' mutual coordination economy, while solidarity economy folks do? But seems you're saying, it's an open question, that nobody properly gets yet? Work in progress?

@mike_hales

That. P2PF named the idea but has not formulated it yet in an operational way. We're working on it, but
a) it ain't easy, and
b) we think it needs to be done in a collaboration with living networks that can do it, which are rare.

@bhaugen Mutual coordination economy . .
>"living networks that can do it . . are rare" 😞

@mike_hales

The Toyota Production System did it in the capitalist world.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_P

A lot of software people jumped on about 25% of the idea, thus the "kanban" UIs which misunderstand the ideas of kanbans.

@bhaugen Ah, OK, kanbans . . so you mean, a kind of low-tech open transparent operations self-management system, coupled with a collaborative culture of everybody wanting to get the job done?

But without that 80s Toyota perspective on 'the gold in the workers' minds', or "with every pair of hands, you get a free mind"? Free cheap, not free libre.

@mike_hales
> so you mean, a kind of low-tech open transparent operations self-management system, coupled with a collaborative culture of everybody wanting to get the job done?

I do mean all that, but low-tech only works locally or where you can exchange totepans or something.

For mutual coordination across the fediverse, need slightly higher tech. But we're working on it.