@bob just ready your "Is FOSS capitalist?" and I thought it was well done.

I think I can see the original author's point (or at least the point of those who they claim to represent), but I think the root cause is different, and therefore the solution they propose is inadequate.

I'm going to try and write something more cohesive about this but I wanted to thank-you for your post.

@bob I think it's a hard thing to summarize, but I think it's important to start a thoughtful counter-narrative because I don't think anyone wins driving users back into the arms of proprietary software.

@bob This is the best I could do in the time I alloted myself :)

I'm sure it's full of (factual, grammatical) errors but that's not really the point. If I can find some time later I'll go-back and clean things up :)

@jjg This reminds me of the hypercard demo from the late 1980s which can be found on YouTube. I never used that system, but the ease with which programs could be made still looks futuristic even now.

@bob Hypercard has a direct relationship to this (it was Atkinson's translation of BASIC into the GUI realm).

I've considered a number of times of reviving the idea (as have others) but haven't had enough justification to complete it.

Maybe now's the time?

@jjg Could be. I think there is a programming system called Scratch which is maybe ok for teaching but the demos I saw weren't all that impressive. Apart from that I don't know of any current programming system which is designed to be easy for an average user. BASIC probably still exists, but the Visual Basic I was using in the late 1990s was much more complex than anything from the 1980s microcomputers and primarily aimed at business professionals.

@bob Yeah, there's a number of "toys and teaching tools" but nothing that's intended to create usable, sustainable software.

I guess in one way it's like capitalism: the people who have the power to fix it are the ones who have the most to loose by fixing it πŸ˜‚

@bob I think the other thing about BASIC and early micros is that there wasn't something more "legit", software written BASIC wasn't "degenerate" or "second-class" on these machines.

Probably more of a perception problem than reality, but it might still be a factor.


if you are not already familiar with bret victor, may I humbly suggest you spend a few moments perusing his writings and projects, starting @



This looks good but I have to say I'm disappointed that it appears to all be video.

I'll have to wait until I have more time to take a closer look.



Hmm. I know he has some essays and some interactive demos. Odd they aren't on his personal site. I'll trawl my mess of bookmarks and see if I can find a few things that came to mind when first reading your "toots"



Yes, based on the titles I think there's probably significant overlap between our headspaces 😁


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