@mike_hales @mako Most coop people don't understand software, let alone Free Software. Most Free Software people don't understand coops. The intersection of these two groups is tiny, but hopefully growing.
What I would like to see would be more people interested in learning, and less people trying to impose their very particualr views on the other camp.
The implied assumption that Free Software projects can't possibly stay honest is indicative that a lot more work is needed.
@mako @mike_hales Free Software was built to free people from their shackles. Free Software was almost exclusively built by Free Software people. It would be a good thing if people arrived into the world of Free Software with humble aspirations to learn how the Free Software collaborative mode of production came into being in its 30+ years of existence, and undeniable success.
At the same time, too many coops sometimes have an excessive tendency towards bikeshedding, and endless brainstorms with few people actually compromising to deliver products, and dillution of responsibility when not managed properly.
That's the antithesis of what Free Software is about.
It's better to be an excellent coop before assuming that any and all coops can be a good match for Free Software. Otherwise we're at risk of ending up with the worst of both worlds.
@Graham_Mitchell Digitlal Life Collective IMHO seems a bit smothering and over-engineered with its standards and recipes. But there are many consumerist folks who like to buy a package rather than blaze a trail so maybe this platform has a contribution to make?
I found it opaque on first contact, too many tools and statements nested one or more levels down under a sleek UI surface, too many core processes undescribed. Hopefully, life will triumph and the lunatics will take over the asylum.
@mike_hales I'm interested in your perception of the Digital Life Collective. I've been involved on and off for about 8 months now, and whilst I would certainly agree with you that it feels opaque, what I've found underneath is an interesting and interested group, pursuing a range of fairly disparate projects, but at the same time sharing some common values and core concerns.
@mike_hales A while back I thought that this diverse and loosely connected group wasn't sufficiently coherent to be able to act in concert, and almost walked away from it.
But I've now changed my stance on it, and see the collective more as a broad umbrella under which lots of interesting things could happen.
So for the time being at least, I'm sticking with it.
@mike_hales I'd love to understand more about your take on it, as a few of us are working to change the outward-facing presentation quite dramatically, and your insights would be invaluable to help guide that.
@Graham_Mitchell Too full of stuff to dive down into the DLC site, and methodology 😞 Glad to hear the presentation may be changing. Can imagine that what you say about broad umbrella & common values is true.
IMHO the project does present as a kind of 'radicalism lite' or community development by numbers. But for all that, it could be a route for folks to get deeper involved, think more and network. Takes all sorts! If disparate projects are underneath, front end is amazingly coherent!
@mike_hales Many thanks, valuable feedback, which I'm sharing with others in the collective (anonymised) as we review and redesign. Greatly appreciated.
Oh BTW I'm a newbie in the coops too (My background is corporate subversion, rather than self-sufficient cooperation.) So the intersection between the two communities is even thinner than you thought @h ;)
I really AM going to bed now . .
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