New phone considerations 

Need to get a new phone. The last one was not designed to be repaired, I tried anyways and broke it even more. Now I'd like to get a phone that's repairable by design that'll hopefully last longer, so #Fairphone, #Librem or #Shiftphone came into my mind.

I'd also like to switch to some ungoogled OS and that's where it becomes difficult. For security reasons, I'd like to re-lock the bootloader after flashing, but since #lineageOS and co are usually not signed, they most likely won't work behind a locked bootloader. #GrapheneOS and #CalyxOS look promising in that regard and can re-lock it (how? Do they get signed?), but they are only available for Pixel phones and one Xiaomi phone which are all glued together.

Any thoughts or recommendations on models and OSs or the bootloader problem? Signal and Wire messengers need to run properly.


New phone considerations 


Afraid your options aren't looking great.

Theres very few phones that support verified boot with alternative operating systems. Many of those that try mess up.
Think its difficult to do and imagine small phone manufacturers wouldnt be able to justify spending the resources.

(Note Fairphone 3 completely messed up its verified boot)

I'd be surprised if the Librem 5 gets Signal or Wire any time soon (if ever?) maybe some

New phone considerations 

half functional implementation/ported desktop version, without proper notifications (so no incoming calls).

The shift phones are interesting. Would be interesting to learn more about their devices.

Rather than a ungoogled OS could run the stock OS and use
πšŠπšπš‹ πš™πš– πšžπš—πš’πš—πšœπšπšŠπš•πš•
to remove all the Google components.
If the phone manufacturer isn't stuffing the phone full of spyware can get good results using that method.
Need to consider whats webview it uses

and how you will keep that updated (you really need to)

Also with phones that use Project Mainline some system components are updated via the Play Store. You'd also want to keep these updated.

The easy way to keep things updated is to have a secondary android user, start that from time to time and update this stuff via the Play Store from there. Once the phones restarted the Google stuff can't run until you log into the user again.

@dazinism Thank you! Much appreciated. I've came to a similar conclusion. I've ordered the Fairphone 3 and will go for Stock Android and ungoogle it myself as much as possible. I haven't heard about the method of having different android profiles, but it sounds like it fits my use case.

This article mentions how it could work with re-locking the BL, but I don't want to take the risk of hard bricking that phone.

I've also sent a PM wrt the BL problem to but didn't get a response yet.

I can't tell you much about the Shiftphones unfortunately. They are modular as well and do have their own OS but I'm always a bit wary of those self-baked OEM Android forks. (German, unfortunately, the language support is a bit weird on the site)

@tofuwabohu @dazinism there is an ungoogled FP3 with locked bootloader from @gael

@Kurt @dazinism @gael (continuing from here since is blocked on That would be cool, I wonder how that works?



The way it works is /e/ use the android test keys to sign the builds the same as (sadly) Fair Phone do.

What it looks like has happened is - for some reason Fair Phone never burnt their own verified boot key into the efuses like they should have done. Looks like it is still possible to use EDL mode to burn a verified boot key into the efuses, but then you'd need an OS build (and all future OS updates) signed with those keys.

Its a pretty big security fail.

@Kurt @gael

@gael @dazinism @tofuwabohu the question was about the locked bootloader of Fairphone 3 with pre-installed /e/.

Was talking about using the AOSP test keys for verified boot.
Apparently both /e/ & Fairphone did back in May
Also was still the case at least with your IMG-e-0.11-p-2020082870302-dev-FP3 build
Basically gives FP3 comparable security to other /e/ devices (guess they have unlocked bootloader & show orange boot warning screen)
You don't get the significant extra security against persistent remote or local compromise that is gained from verified boot @tofuwabohu @Kurt

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