I'm worried that this is a very silly question, but are there well-specified p2p protocols for building resilient communities? I know this sounds like techbro bullshit but I've seen lots of techniques to build community but zero **systems** geared toward building community.
@jdaviescoates this is exactly what I was thinking of, thanks for reminding me that this exists! I should catch up with Rich soon
@christianbundy My first thought is that the successful long-term intentional communities I know of emphasize culture first and foremost. As Peter Drucker put it, "culture eats structure for breakfast."
My second thought is Sociocracy might fit that bill. It's definitely a system and, when applied, seems pretty good at building trust which, to my mind, is the foundation of real community.
@christianbundy can you develop? I might have some leads. 🙂
Besides those other good questions, do you have a specific community in mind? You don't have to identify it, but if you have one in mind, maybe describe it a bit?
@bhaugen Great question! I have a few in mind:
- P2P software developers that only bump into each other incidentally. We've got lots of potential but no organization.
- Folks in my coworking space, who, again, bump into each other incidentally bug don't organize or spend time together on purpose.
- Same as above, but my apartment complex and neighborhood.
I guess another way of putting it: I have lots of one-on-one relationships, but few group relationships that aren't centrally organized.
> physical is easier
/me laughs in american
But really though, regardless of covid-19 lockdown, eventually physical hangouts will be possible. I think what I'm looking for is details on "take it from there".
In the past, I've enjoyed putting together small events and I've made lots of friends from them, but usually they're one-on-one friendships and my intuition is that we have lots of power that we aren't organizing because we don't know how to.
It seems like the two modes of organizing are:
- Distributed, low growth (e.g. neighborhood bbq).
- Centralized, high growth (e.g. companies).
I want 'distributed, high growth', like an epidemic of neighborhood bbqs and radical cooperation. As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, maybe something like microsolidarity?
@cldtech yeah! I'd love to hear what you're thinking
secure collaboration meta, circular problems
As things are, the lack of any secure decentralized collaboration option that is accessible for nontechnical users means we (organizers, techies, etc) either accept that everything will be seen by corporate shills (and therefore no serious engineering conversations can be attempted), collaboration can only happen between people willing to configure increasingly large and unstable stacks of technical debt, or confine community-building conversation to the trivial (over insecure protocols) and just accept that metadata analysis (https://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metadata-to-find-paul-revere/) will be used to target and eliminate us all.
This isn't a community problem, it's a communication & engineering problem (ref https://wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_of_All_Demosor https://gitea.com/nuneco/irregular.team/wiki/secure_collaboration) , the tech is a "solved" problem but functionally nobody short of a sysadmin can use it as-is.
But I'm not willing to throw away a tool I've spent most of my life refining just because the solution might be possible without it.
Realtime collaboration is the goal, and that isn't possible without some form of augmentation.
Ideally, we'd exchange idea-blobs via mindlink through the distributed mesh, and do so in realtime provided we're within a node or three of one another.
Realtime organization requires some measure of tactical feasibility far short of that, and cypher/sneakernet hybrid approaches are to be had, if nothing else.
Plus, a mishmash of recycled walkie talkies, shortwave, and CB is much more difficult to cohesively track than if everyone is on a homogeneous spectrum or service or hardware.
re: community/communication meta
@xj9 ...specific method of communication aside, your points about community are loud and clear to me, and since encountering walkaway I've reworked my entire approach to...systemic change.
Suffice it to say, more progress towards this is happening offline than on, now...and the moments without nearby electricity are less rare, and increasing.
How do you collaborate best? What draws the line between what you do as breathing, and what eats your spoons? Where do you document, and what becomes the filter/process to make your thoughts less private? How does your routine add utility or accessibility or agency to your community, and how can we both learn from one another best and most cohesively, while retaining independence and pipelines of collaboration on longer term projects?
These are what I think about when not occupied with solving the daily problems.
@xj9 sorry, I think there might have been some implicit context that I didn't mean to add: I don't mean 'p2p' in the technological sense.
I've seen an infinite number of community-building systems, but usually that's just "marketing" and it's basically self-promotion where all edges point at you. I guess I'm looking for the same sort of engineering except toward building resilient ecosystems of friendships instead of trying to get a bunch of people to subscribe to my email newsletter.
@christianbundy It depends what qualifies as "protocol". See #ElinorOstrom for a "framework" on the #commons and various kinds of communities.
@nemobis thanks for the links! do you know if these are available anywhere online?
@christianbundy One is available from the Internet Archive but only for the visually impaired. https://archive.org/details/governingcommons00ostr
The other might have some chapter online from this or that repository, but I strongly recommend the latest paperback version which is some 20 $.
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