I'm worried that this is a very silly question, but are there well-specified p2p protocols for building resilient communities? I know this sounds like techbro bullshit but I've seen lots of techniques to build community but zero **systems** geared toward building community.

@christianbundy I'm not really sure if it's the sort of thing you're thinking of at all, but I'm digging stuff atm

@jdaviescoates this is exactly what I was thinking of, thanks for reminding me that this exists! I should catch up with Rich soon

Looks like you got a potential way to move ahead suggested by @jdaviescoates but I'm still thinking about your overall question and where you want to go with it.

@christianbundy My first thought is that the successful long-term intentional communities I know of emphasize culture first and foremost. As Peter Drucker put it, "culture eats structure for breakfast."

My second thought is Sociocracy might fit that bill. It's definitely a system and, when applied, seems pretty good at building trust which, to my mind, is the foundation of real community.

Besides those other good questions, do you have a specific community in mind? You don't have to identify it, but if you have one in mind, maybe describe it a bit?

@bhaugen Great question! I have a few in mind:

- P2P software developers that only bump into each other incidentally. We've got lots of potential but no organization.
- Folks in my coworking space, who, again, bump into each other incidentally bug don't organize or spend time together on purpose.
- Same as above, but my apartment complex and neighborhood.

I guess another way of putting it: I have lots of one-on-one relationships, but few group relationships that aren't centrally organized.

@christianbundy @bhaugen for the last 2 (physical is easier), host a BBQ and take it from there? :D

@powersource @bhaugen

> physical is easier

/me laughs in american

But really though, regardless of covid-19 lockdown, eventually physical hangouts will be possible. I think what I'm looking for is details on "take it from there".

In the past, I've enjoyed putting together small events and I've made lots of friends from them, but usually they're one-on-one friendships and my intuition is that we have lots of power that we aren't organizing because we don't know how to.

@christianbundy @bhaugen still a bit unclear on your reqs tbh :P What do you want to organize for? What kind of (ballpark is fine) organization do you want?

@powersource @bhaugen I want a big fractal of relationships that takes care of everyone's needs without any central planning / governance.

It seems like the two modes of organizing are:

- Distributed, low growth (e.g. neighborhood bbq).
- Centralized, high growth (e.g. companies).

I want 'distributed, high growth', like an epidemic of neighborhood bbqs and radical cooperation. As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, maybe something like microsolidarity?

@christianbundy imo community building isn't a tech problem, rather a social one. p2p is good for building resilient distributed infrastructure, but you can do the same thing with centralized systems too.

community doesn't actually need technology

secure collaboration meta, circular problems 

@eryn @christianbundy

this presupposes that community has to be mediated over digital mediums. there are costs to in-person community building, but in many cases choosing digital solutions creates more digital problems. that isn't to say that i'm opposed to creating alternative technical solutions to online collaboration which are useful to activists. these are important technical challenges, but we can't forget that large scale organization is possible even with extremely limited communication tools.

consider the 1936 anarchist uprising in Spain, there was no internet and the first transatlantic phone call was only placed in 1927. yet they managed to organize at a large scale. what if we are constraining our imaginations?

community/communication meta 

re: community/communication meta 

@xj9 sorry, I think there might have been some implicit context that I didn't mean to add: I don't mean 'p2p' in the technological sense.

I've seen an infinite number of community-building systems, but usually that's just "marketing" and it's basically self-promotion where all edges point at you. I guess I'm looking for the same sort of engineering except toward building resilient ecosystems of friendships instead of trying to get a bunch of people to subscribe to my email newsletter.

@christianbundy one sustainable form that i know about is cooperatives. they're self-perpetuating for profit motive, but they are not supposed to by dominated by it like corporations are.

but a lot of things are not a business so i'm not sure how to systematize them. l like hanging around sunshine gardens for the friends and like casual atmosphere. so maybe we're doing the thing right now? creating a culture?

for example, what event could you forsee destroying the our cluster's culture here in the fediverse?

@nemobis thanks for the links! do you know if these are available anywhere online?

@christianbundy One is available from the Internet Archive but only for the visually impaired.

The other might have some chapter online from this or that repository, but I strongly recommend the latest paperback version which is some 20 $.

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