@bhaugen @mike_hales that's cool, thanks. Personally, I would like a positive inquiry into how standards could be in true service of humanity / the planet. I have ideas, very willing to pool them!

@bhaugen @mike_hales fair enough Bob! My comments were obviously just a superficial reaction -- would be delighted to be proved wrong!

@mike_hales @bhaugen looks more like polemic to me, from the blurb. Of course standards can be misused. That's not an argument, nor is it dialogue, which is what I would appreciate.

@strypey
Fascinating piece, Strypey. As it happens 1990 (date in article) was exactly when I submitted my PhD thesis. I suggested a new direction: no one took it up :(
@bhaugen @aral @mike_hales @tootbrute @Matt_Noyes @emi

I've revised my test piece on "Adapting the ICA co-operative values and principles for interpersonal relationships" simongrant.org/pubs/web/2018/0 and would welcome discussion about whether anything like that could be helpful to making social media discussion explicitly co-operative @LeoSammallahti @strypey

@strypey seriously, though, it would seem like we have the freedom, in principle, to set up another Mastodon instance with different rules or guidelines? Want to try -- of course, only after gathering some more people with a similar leading?

@strypey interesting indeed. I am persuaded that "feeling safe" is a key issue: I am sure that everyone feeling safe is incompatible with open, exploratory dialogue. If one group is to feel safe, the space needs to be closed and strictly policed in accordance with their needs. But what if they aren't my needs? Then I am excluded...

@asimong ... aaaaaand here's a classic example of the problem that OpenDemocracy.net article is talking about. It would be an absurd exaggeration to say that the level of self-righteous entitlement this articles reeks of is proto-fascist and dangerous - exactly the same kind of absurd exaggeration as literally *everything* in this article. Bullying people is not activism, and being proud of it is despicable
medium.com/@AmberEnderton/wil-

Cognitive dissonance:

We have developed a Code of Conduct/Reporting Guidelines so that people who see something that violates our principles can take action -- either through a conflict resolution approach, or by reporting the incident, either to the CWG or to Mastodon admins.

At the same time our timelines are full of conduct we say we don't want.

Seems to me this is an organizing problem, specific to this time and place. If we can figure it out, we can make a good contribution.

@Antanicus Thank you! You touched on something I wasn't fully happy about either. I've changed it. Any better now? simongrant.org/pubs/web/2018/0

Here's an exploratory thought that could appeal particularly to all us coop people here.... My adaptation of the ICA principles to apply to interpersonal relationships:
simongrant.org/pubs/web/2018/0

But I would still love to be part of the solution!

@aadilayub@fosstodon.org @strypey not meaning to say it's easy, but going through the process of finding other people to fill in expertise gaps, and working out a strategy to actually do it would be really valuable in itself.

@strypey @aadilayub@fosstodon.org let's totally do a version of this!

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